AUTO bomb steering line

[Harlikwin]

That's not the point. If you shut down the HUD use good old word war II methods map, height and course, plus stop watch and calculation, you can do it completely without HUD and ARBS.

 

The idea of the AV-8B Harrier II is to have a modern CAS and bombing platform.

What puzzles me, is that Razbam seemingly struggles with the whole concept, despite good documentation in the NATOPS TAC manual and even the F/A-18C for reference, which implements a 90% identical concept and symbology, minus the TV for designation.

 

So what is the correct behaviour?

The ASL has to go through the target designator. Why? Because the idea is to fly the plane towards (!) the target.

Now, when currently the ASL moves left or right from the designated target point (the caret symbol) and you would steer the plane towards the ASL, you fly away(!) from the target and when rolling wings level, the ASL swings back again...

 

If you look at the screenshot attached you can see the actual target under the caret. Horizon line (white) and the symbology (red) how it should be. The current fix is shown in dashed yellow and still leads you away from the intended target, while you should bank left(!) (blue) to align your flightpath with the target (the perpendicular ASL going through the target and extending indefinitely).

 

 

EDIT: basically all Razbam needs to do is read the DCS x and y coordinates of the target (designator) and put a green line along the z-axis and take care it is only visible in the HUD frame... then calculate the release cue in reference to the bombing triangle.

 

It may be off the target because the ARBS is accounting for wind drift (IRL) not sure if wind/plane drift is modeled in DCS. But as I understand the tac manual, the line should perpendicular to the horizon line as you suggest but it can be off to one side of the target to account for target movment or drift. Since the current version doesn't seem to be able to do target movment, it may be wind drift (or broken IDK).

[shagrat]

It may be off the target because the ARBS is accounting for wind drift (IRL) not sure if wind/plane drift is modeled in DCS. But as I understand the tac manual, the line should perpendicular to the horizon line as you suggest but it can be off to one side of the target to account for target movment or drift. Since the current version doesn't seem to be able to do target movment, it may be wind drift (or broken IDK).

 

In the test mission I referred to and made the screen shot, there was no wind. So no, it wasn't ARBS correcting for crosswind.

Anyway the ASL moves proportional and depending on the bank(!) angle of the aircraft, it moves in a way steering you away from the release point and it moves both left or right simply by banking the aircraft, you don't need to even turn... IRL even with crosswind the ASL should stay to one side of the target marking the wind corrected release point and not swing with light bank angles.

[shagrat]

P.S. did you actually try an AUTO delivery in the DCS: AV-8B ? Or just commenting on screenshots and pictures in this thread?

I mean it isn't something "subtle" that is hard to notice. Fly straight towards the designated target, align VV with the ASL and bank 20° right, quickly followed by 20° bank to the left while trying not to turn much and then level out. What does the ASL do? Does this make any sense?

[Harlikwin]

In the test mission I referred to and made the screen shot, there was no wind. So no, it wasn't ARBS correcting for crosswind.

Anyway the ASL moves proportional and depending on the bank(!) angle of the aircraft, it moves in a way steering you away from the release point and it moves both left or right simply by banking the aircraft, you don't need to even turn... IRL even with crosswind the ASL should stay to one side of the target marking the wind corrected release point and not swing with light bank angles.

 

Well, from what I can determine from the manual its one of two things based on this paragraph. And the somewhat confusing images.

 

"The ASL is limited in the lateral direction to

the HUD total field of view (TFOV) and is

always oriented perpendicular to the horizon

(roll stabilized)." pg 2-56

 

Does roll stabilized, perpenicular to the horizon mean the artificial horizon/roll tape (the manual images suggest this is so) then will cant with the aircraft. IF I understand the manual it should stay perpendicular to the the roll tape based on the pictures in the manual based on the pictures and the text I quoted from the manual.

 

As I understand how people want it to work is a straight line going up from the target (so staying perpendicular to the real horizon and not moving with aircraft bank angle) and displayed in the HUD so you line up your VVI on it and drop the bombs (which also makes sense and may be how it works on the F18/A10).

 

But at least what I saw in the vids and read in the manual, this doesn't appear to be how the harrier worked. Though its hard to tell with the vids since they are coming in basically level. It would be nice to get input from an SME on that.

[Harlikwin]

P.S. did you actually try an AUTO delivery in the DCS: AV-8B ? Or just commenting on screenshots and pictures in this thread?

I mean it isn't something "subtle" that is hard to notice. Fly straight towards the designated target, align VV with the ASL and bank 20° right, quickly followed by 20° bank to the left while trying not to turn much and then level out. What does the ASL do? Does this make any sense?

 

Nope, aside from accidentally having it on before using CCIP then no, because everyone has said its bugged and doesn't work right :music_whistling:...

 

But now since I've waded into the thick of this I'll have to go try it out now that I have some pre-conceived notions of how it works from the actual natops manual :).

[shagrat]

Well, from what I can determine from the manual its one of two things based on this paragraph. And the somewhat confusing images.

 

"The ASL is limited in the lateral direction to

the HUD total field of view (TFOV) and is

always oriented perpendicular to the horizon

(roll stabilized)." pg 2-56

 

Does roll stabilized, perpenicular to the horizon mean the artificial horizon/roll tape (the manual images suggest this is so) then will cant with the aircraft. IF I understand the manual it should stay perpendicular to the the roll tape based on the pictures in the manual based on the pictures and the text I quoted from the manual.

 

As I understand how people want it to work is a straight line going up from the target (so staying perpendicular to the real horizon and not moving with aircraft bank angle) and displayed in the HUD so you line up your VVI on it and drop the bombs (which also makes sense and may be how it works on the F18/A10).

 

But at least what I saw in the vids and read in the manual, this doesn't appear to be how the harrier worked. Though its hard to tell with the vids since they are coming in basically level. It would be nice to get input from an SME on that.

Basically it should work pretty much as in the F/A-18C. The "perpendicular to the horizon" has been fixed with the last update of the Harrier. What remains is the wild swaying and swinging in proportion to and only in proportion to the bank angle of the aircraft.

 

I made a video to show what I mean and so people not owning/flying both the AV-8B and F/A-18C can see how the ASL behaves currently...

 

The video shows a designation from the EHSD via DSG button, with BAUTO mode. No wind, standard QNH. First Razbam AV-8B, second ED F/A-18C.

(Just uploading now may take up to an hour after posting here before the video is available):

 

[Deano87]

The AV8B bomb fall line is absolutly not correct. In a zero wind, zero target motion situation the bomb fall line should be going through the target diamond, just like it does in the F-18. It will offset to the side of the diamond to account for target movement or aircraft drift (crosswind). It should stay perpendicular to the horizon and rolling the aircraft shouldn’t effect it’s relative position to the diamond like it does currently.

 

It’s broken yo.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Deano87

[shagrat]

Nope, aside from accidentally having it on before using CCIP then no, because everyone has said its bugged and doesn't work right :music_whistling:...

 

But now since I've waded into the thick of this I'll have to go try it out now that I have some pre-conceived notions of how it works from the actual natops manual :).

Ok, this is not meant as a personal attack and I don't want to offend you, but did it occur to you that it might be a good approach to try and test the system in question, before making statements like "the canted line seems correct" (because that was already acknowledged and fixed by Razbam)?

In addition it puzzles me that we get comments and creative input, before you even had time to read the A1-AV8BB-TAC-000 respective chapter(s), as I guess 90% of the people posting in this thread did read, before commenting.

Also, the understanding of how you can designate targets, how this correlates to the use of ARBS and the respective height source (RAUTO, BAUTO) etc. is a nice detail, but it cannot explain why the Azimuth STEERING Line does not relate to the release point in perspective to the target, but only to the roll movement through bank angle alone...

[Harlikwin]

Ok, this is not meant as a personal attack and I don't want to offend you, but did it occur to you that it might be a good approach to try and test the system in question, before making statements like "the canted line seems correct" (because that was already acknowledged and fixed by Razbam)?

In addition it puzzles me that we get comments and creative input, before you even had time to read the A1-AV8BB-TAC-000 respective chapter(s), as I guess 90% of the people posting in this thread did read, before commenting.

Also, the understanding of how you can designate targets, how this correlates to the use of ARBS and the respective height source (RAUTO, BAUTO) etc. is a nice detail, but it cannot explain why the Azimuth STEERING Line does not relate to the release point in perspective to the target, but only to the roll movement through bank angle alone...

 

No worries, I've been a citizen of the interweb for a few decades, and in a professional capacity I work in environments where peoples ideas get grilled on a regular basis, therefore I'm pretty hard to offend ;).

 

Actually no, I've heard its broken, Its a game, I don't want to play a broken game, the harrier has lots of broken things I find frustrating, this is one more. Its even more frustrating because its a part of the actual core functionality of the harrier. And I could go on and on. I'm generally not inclined to be the beta tester (at least an unpaid one, and lets be honest, I don't think RAZBAM couldn't actually afford to pay me IRL)

 

I did actually read/skim the manual when I got the harrier a few months back. The RAZBAM one which is probably out of date, Chucks Guide (also out of date) and the NATOOPS. And I think my initial comments were about the various problems with the ARBS and missing features (which I think there are, unless loft bombing and the other stuff I mentioned was added?) However that does not make me an SME on it. Anyhow its a separate set of issues and adds a bit more fuel to the dumpster fire of a module that the harrier is IMO.

 

As for the ASL and the manual. 3 points I was trying to make and understand.

 

1. How does it actually work? Certainly I think how it works in the hornet and presumably A10 makes the most sense to me. The ASL goes through the target (or mostly if there is wind/movement), you line up your velocity marker on that. Push the button as the marker falls, bombs release, glorious boom on target. While this makes sense, and does work in the sim, the question remains is it how it works in the harrier?

 

2. How the actual A1-AV8BB-TAC-000 manual presents it. (I'll update this with pics if I can figure the forum software out) otherwise we all have the same file so folks can follow along. So in fig 2-50, and 2-45 vertical line, 90 degrees to real horizon and the hud roll tape notably GOING through TARGET. So basically how it "should work" in case 1 above. HOWEVER, figure 2-39, ASL NOT through target line, and it is perpendicular (90 deg) to the roll tape, no real horizon provided for reference but lets assume its flat like the top and bottom of the page and the plane is banking. Then we have figures 2-31 and 2-32: 2-32 shows a vertical ASL, through the target caret and 90 degrees to the roll tape. 2-31 right next to it shows the ASL through the target caret and the whole thing is canted relative to what I assume the horizon should be (again parallel relative to the bottom page). It could also be that since IRL the roll tape is parallel to the horizon that the ASL would also be perpendicular to the horizon. Of course it begs the question of why draw it like that, was the illustrator drunk?

 

Then it gets FUN, Figure 2-52, the ASL line, goes through the target, however it is NOT perpendicular to either the actual horizon (shown) or the roll tape! Rather it goes through the center of the HUD nav heading indicator 00! Then we have Figure 2-58 which is similar to 2-50, Figure 2-59 (same as 2-31 basically)

 

So, based on all this how does it actually work? Honestly its pretty hard to say, but given the various illustrations, 2 things are usually clear: #1 the ASL should probably go through the target caret (maybe not for wind or movers) since this is the thing we want to hit, (But also contraindicated by figure 2-39) #2 the ASL most likely should be perpendicular at 90 degrees to the roll tape which in theory should be parallel to the horizon. However, this isn't actually true for figure 2-52 which is the 1 figure we have we have with the TDC (line does go through it), the roll tape (ASL not perpendicular) and the horizon (again ASL not perpendicular). SO... In conclusion, the TAC manual is not really helpful here, the illustrations sadly are generally lacking context and content, and you basically would probably have to see in the jet to "get" it IMO. Is 2-52 correct? OR are the other figures correct, because they are contradictory. In conclusion, the manual was probably written by a US Marine Aviator, and we should be thankful its not written in green crayon and covered in cartoon dicks ;).

 

3. How it currently works in the game. Seems WRONG... The ASL line as near as I can tell seems to basically work as some sort of weird screwed up CCIP with auto release in proximity to the target. The ASL line does NOT go through the target (did it at some point? not clear on the history), nor is the ASL perpendicular to either the horizon or the roll tape it sort of hangs pendulously based on roll rate of aircraft. Its basically useless, and it took me about 4 minutes to figure that out (3 of those were loading the game). So I'm not sure what RAZBAM is actually trying to model, but it doesn't seem to have any actual connection to either point 1 or point 2.

 

So anyway, my lengthy post was to try to put into words what I was seeing/understanding based on the actual TAC manual. I can sort of see why RAZBAM might have gotten it wrong IF the TAC manual is all they had, however its also pretty disappointing if thats all the documentation/SME access they had. Also, DECOY can now send me a paypal for lets say $400 bucks for my time :smilewink: since I'm not really a beta tester...

Edited February 1, 2019 by Harlikwin
1

[shagrat]

Actually no, I've heard its broken, Its a game, I don't want to play a broken game, the harrier has lots of broken things I find frustrating, this is one more. Its even more frustrating because its a part of the actual core functionality of the harrier. And I could go on and on.

It's not that bad, actually, there is mostly stuff still missing, but yes, the frustration for me is the broken core functionality of bomb delivery in a strike aircraft.

thanks

I did actually read/skim the manual when I got the harrier a few months back. The RAZBAM one which is probably out of date, Chucks Guide (also out of date) and the NATOOPS. And I think my initial comments were about the various problems with the ARBS and missing features (which I think there are, unless loft bombing and the other stuff I mentioned was added?)

No, loft bombing, transition from CCIP to AUTO etc. still not in, but that is ok for me, as it takes time... it is WIP after all.

As for the ASL and the manual. 3 points I was trying to make and understand.

 

1. How does it actually work? Certainly I think how it works in the hornet and presumably A10 makes the most sense to me. The ASL goes through the target (or mostly if there is wind/movement), you line up your velocity marker on that. Push the button as the marker falls, bombs release, glorious boom on target. While this makes sense, and does work in the sim, the question remains is it how it works in the harrier?

The A-10C symbology is different, though the concept of the "ASL" (Solution Cue) is similar, but the F/A-18C uses a very much identical system and in general the concept of "getting things dropped on a target" is not different between aircraft.

One thing in the wording that I did first, as well, was the ASL is showing the release point. Now if we have no wind and aren't in a slip or fly an un-coordinated turn, the ASL should be pretty much passing through the target (marker).

As the idea of the ASL is to give you a steering cue to the release point, it should stay fixed over the computed release point, unless it corrects for drastic changes that requires recalculation. In the F/A-18C Part of the video you can see the minor adjustments. It will be offset to one side with crosswinds.

The basic concept is to fly the Velocity Vector over the ASL with smooth, deliberate inputs and keep it there, hold the bomb release button down while the release cue falls through the VV and turn away from the target.

2. How the actual A1-AV8BB-TAC-000 manual presents it. (I'll update this with pics if I can figure the forum software out) otherwise we all have the same file so folks can follow along. So in fig 2-50, and 2-45 vertical line, 90 degrees to real horizon and the hud roll tape notably GOING through TARGET. So basically how it "should work" in case 1 above. HOWEVER, figure 2-39, ASL NOT through target line, and it is perpendicular (90 deg) to the roll tape, no real horizon provided for reference but lets assume its flat like the top and bottom of the page and the plane is banking. Then we have figures 2-31 and 2-32: 2-32 shows a vertical ASL, through the target caret and 90 degrees to the roll tape. 2-31 right next to it shows the ASL through the target caret and the whole thing is canted relative to what I assume the horizon should be (again parallel relative to the bottom page). It could also be that since IRL the roll tape is parallel to the horizon that the ASL would also be perpendicular to the horizon. Of course it begs the question of why draw it like that, was the illustrator drunk?

 

Then it gets FUN, Figure 2-52, the ASL line, goes through the target, however it is NOT perpendicular to either the actual horizon (shown) or the roll tape! Rather it goes through the center of the HUD nav heading indicator 00! Then we have Figure 2-58 which is similar to 2-50, Figure 2-59 (same as 2-31 basically)

 

So, based on all this how does it actually work? Honestly its pretty hard to say, but given the various illustrations, 2 things are usually clear: #1 the ASL should probably go through the target caret (maybe not for wind or movers) since this is the thing we want to hit, (But also contraindicated by figure 2-39) #2 the ASL most likely should be perpendicular at 90 degrees to the roll tape which in theory should be parallel to the horizon. However, this isn't actually true for figure 2-52 which is the 1 figure we have we have with the TDC (line does go through it), the roll tape (ASL not perpendicular) and the horizon (again ASL not perpendicular). SO... In conclusion, the TAC manual is not really helpful here, the illustrations sadly are generally lacking context and content, and you basically would probably have to see in the jet to "get" it IMO. Is 2-52 correct? OR are the other figures correct, because they are contradictory. In conclusion, the manual was probably written by a US Marine Aviator, and we should be thankful its not written in green crayon and covered in cartoon dicks ;).

As the ASL is the calculated vector between the plane and the release point, it should be perpendicular to the horizon and thus the roll stabilized HUD ladder (the dive/climb angle indications) the rest of the HUD symbology usually rolls with the aircraft.

This has already been corrected by Razbam in the last update to the Harrier.

You can think of the ASL as a vertical plane extending from the HUD towards the release vector. Only you see it as an infinite vertical line. Now while you fly along this plane the calculated release cue will indicate the optimum release point for the current course and speed. Thus it is important to fly wings level with no slip and constant speed, a couple seconds before you drop, to give the system enough time to calculate a solid drop solution.

3. How it currently works in the game. Seems WRONG... The ASL line as near as I can tell seems to basically work as some sort of weird screwed up CCIP with auto release in proximity to the target. The ASL line does NOT go through the target (did it at some point? not clear on the history), nor is the ASL perpendicular to either the horizon or the roll tape it sort of hangs pendulously based on roll rate of aircraft. Its basically useless, and it took me about 4 minutes to figure that out (3 of those were loading the game). So I'm not sure what RAZBAM is actually trying to model, but it doesn't seem to have any actual connection to either point 1 or point 2.

 

So anyway, my lengthy post was to try to put into words what I was seeing/understanding based on the actual TAC manual. I can sort of see why RAZBAM might have gotten it wrong IF the TAC manual is all they had, however its also pretty disappointing if thats all the documentation/SME access they had.

Overall, yes, the ASL is still not working correct and it would be cool, if Razbam could at least end this whole discussion and tell us, they are aware and it will be fixed. I guess like me most people here are anxious this is not recognized as a problem/bug and we are stuck... If we could know they are aware, have given it a high priority and will fix it, I could rest and wait for it to happen. :)

Edited February 1, 2019 by shagrat

[Deano87]

I guess like me most people here are anxious this is not recognized as a problem/bug and we are stuck... If we could know they are aware, have given it a high priority and will fix it, I could rest and wait for it to happen. :)

 

Really well said, exactly this. Some input from Razbam letting us know that it will definetly get fixed would make it a lot easier to wait.

[Schmidtfire]

+1 As far as I am concerned, ASL together with DMT (contrast lock) should be one of the top priorities of the Harrier systems.

[CallsignFrosty]

+1 As far as I am concerned, ASL together with DMT (contrast lock) should be one of the top priorities of the Harrier systems.

 

+1 again.

Now that they have a new guy dedicated to the harrier we might start seeing some progress.

I really WANT this to be my favourite module but right now they are too many items blocking it.

 

Target Elevation entry is also highly necessary to be able to do INS bombing. From reading the real manual it seems that the steerpoint elevation is not carried over into the target waypoint when 'waypoint designate' is pushed.

This means that for any night bombing, where the DMT cannot be used and INS bombing mode is used (requiring either barometric or GPS altitude to get aircraft altitude), requiring manual target elevation entry.

 

The ASL bug however is pretty much module breaking at this point and I'm not sure I could recommend this aircraft in good conscience to any squadron mates that don't have it by now.

[Harlikwin]

It's not that bad, actually, there is mostly stuff still missing, but yes, the frustration for me is the broken core functionality of bomb delivery in a strike aircraft.

thanks

No, loft bombing, transition from CCIP to AUTO etc. still not in, but that is ok for me, as it takes time... it is WIP after all.

I think the transition is working, you can hit the cage/uncage button to switch from CCIP to AUTO (at least last night I could).

 

The A-10C symbology is different, though the concept of the "ASL" (Solution Cue) is similar, but the F/A-18C uses a very much identical system and in general the concept of "getting things dropped on a target" is not different between aircraft.

One thing in the wording that I did first, as well, was the ASL is showing the release point. Now if we have no wind and aren't in a slip or fly an un-coordinated turn, the ASL should be pretty much passing through the target (marker).

As the idea of the ASL is to give you a steering cue to the release point, it should stay fixed over the computed release point, unless it corrects for drastic changes that requires recalculation. In the F/A-18C Part of the video you can see the minor adjustments. It will be offset to one side with crosswinds.

The basic concept is to fly the Velocity Vector over the ASL with smooth, deliberate inputs and keep it there, hold the bomb release button down while the release cue falls through the VV and turn away from the target.

 

That makes sense to me, on multiple levels but its not actually what some of the figures in the manual show. Thats the only point I was trying to make.

 

 

As the ASL is the calculated vector between the plane and the release point, it should be perpendicular to the horizon and thus the roll stabilized HUD ladder (the dive/climb angle indications) the rest of the HUD symbology usually rolls with the aircraft.

This has already been corrected by Razbam in the last update to the Harrier.

You can think of the ASL as a vertical plane extending from the HUD towards the release vector. Only you see it as an infinite vertical line. Now while you fly along this plane the calculated release cue will indicate the optimum release point for the current course and speed. Thus it is important to fly wings level with no slip and constant speed, a couple seconds before you drop, to give the system enough time to calculate a solid drop solution.

 

Again, I understand how this should/does work in other planes, and the manual mentions the ASL is roll stabilized to the horizon (they just have some really bad figures illustrating that in the manual IMO). And in most figures the ASL line is running through the target box as well, or near it at least to account for wind/tgt movment relative to the aircraft.

 

Overall, yes, the ASL is still not working correct and it would be cool, if Razbam could at least end this whole discussion and tell us, they are aware and it will be fixed. I guess like me most people here are anxious this is not recognized as a problem/bug and we are stuck... If we could know they are aware, have given it a high priority and will fix it, I could rest and wait for it to happen. :)

 

Yeah I agree the current system is broken, it acts more like a weird CCIP where you have to fly the ASL onto the target box (shouldn't have to do that) than a CCRP.

 

And really given that this is really important CORE functionality of the harrier (dropping unguided bombs with high precision) I think it should be on the top of the list to fix it.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Harlikwin

[Harlikwin]

+1 As far as I am concerned, ASL together with DMT (contrast lock) should be one of the top priorities of the Harrier systems.

 

I 100% agree. The CCRP bug takes away most of the dumb bombing capability of the harrier which was one of its main selling points. Also the DMT moving target tracker should also be a high priority. Given those two systems and the rest of what currently works I'd be pretty ok with the harrier as a DAY attack platform. More needs to get fixed or added for night attack functionality too.

[Harlikwin]

+1 again.

Now that they have a new guy dedicated to the harrier we might start seeing some progress.

I really WANT this to be my favourite module but right now they are too many items blocking it.

 

Target Elevation entry is also highly necessary to be able to do INS bombing. From reading the real manual it seems that the steerpoint elevation is not carried over into the target waypoint when 'waypoint designate' is pushed.

This means that for any night bombing, where the DMT cannot be used and INS bombing mode is used (requiring either barometric or GPS altitude to get aircraft altitude), requiring manual target elevation entry.

 

The ASL bug however is pretty much module breaking at this point and I'm not sure I could recommend this aircraft in good conscience to any squadron mates that don't have it by now.

 

Agreed on ASL. That should be perhaps the top priority.

 

And yeah from what I understand target elevation (or more accurately figuring plane height above tgt) is critical for accurate bombing, regardless of the source. You left out radar, per the manual the preferred alt methods are GPS, Radar, Baro (in order of "accuracy")

[shagrat]

I think the transition is working, you can hit the cage/uncage button to switch from CCIP to AUTO (at least last night I could).

That is not the "CCIP-to-AUTO" function.

That one is where you position the dashed CCIP-Cross over a target, press and hold the bomb release button and it switches to an AUTO delivery. Similar and in fact superior to the F/A-18C "Ball and chain" designation... As the CCIP symbology currently doesn't even display the reflected cue to determine the time until the CCIP-Cross works.

For details refer to Page 558 and 559, Chapter 2.5.3.1

(...)"2.5.3.1 CCIP-to-AUTO Conversion. When the computed impact point is outside the HUD FOV in the CCIP mode, the MC inhibits weapon release. If the pilot determines from the flight conditions and the reflected cue position that the computed impact point will not be brought within the HUD FOV, he must either rapidly alter the flight profile or designate the target and convert to the AUTO mode. Refer to Figure 2-61.

 

Target designation and conversion to the AUTO mode can be rapidly accomplished on the first pass by placing the dashed CCIP cross on the target and pressing the bomb pickle button. This action designates the point under the dashed cross and the weapon system converts to an AUTO mode delivery. The pilot follows the AUTO mode steering and the weapon is automatically released on the designated target. The CCIP mode HUD symbology returns when the pilot releases the bomb pickle button"(...)

Edited February 1, 2019 by shagrat

[Deano87]

BTW I checked the Bugtracker on http://www.razbamsimulations.com and I found this:

 

 

EDIT: Just noticed theres another listing further down the page as well!

Edited February 1, 2019 by Deano87

[shagrat]

BTW I checked the Bugtracker on http://www.razbamsimulations.com and I found this:

 

 

EDIT: Just noticed theres another listing further down the page as well!

Let's hope for the best then... :)

[Harlikwin]

That is good news indeed. There is also a second entry about the auto bomb mode right under it too.

 

Now we can all start complaining about the next thing :) DMT tracker!

[shagrat]

That is good news indeed.

 

Now we can all start complaining about the next thing :)

Did I mention the CCIP reflected cue and CCIP-to-AUTO-conversion... :music_whistling:

[Schmidtfire]

That's another biggie... and also the FM that flips like a pancake when dropping a bomb. But they deserve their own threads.

[Schmidtfire]

 

Another example.

[CallsignFrosty]

Radar, Baro (in order of "accuracy")

 

Not to get too far off topic but radar in the manual refers to the AV8B+'s radar.

Radar altimeter can also be used for AGL altitude readings but for bombing it is not ideal because the terrain leading to the target needs to be 100% flat for an accurate drop.

 

Same reason that in the Viggen, most of the time you use barometric pressure of the target area instead of rad alt so that you can operate in any terrain.

 

Obviously the best thing to use would be the DMT to get slant range/ AGL of target area, otherwise you are referring to maps, ground forces(JTAC) or preplanned targets to get your target area AGL.

[Harlikwin]

Not to get too far off topic but radar in the manual refers to the AV8B+'s radar.

Radar altimeter can also be used for AGL altitude readings but for bombing it is not ideal because the terrain leading to the target needs to be 100% flat for an accurate drop.

 

Same reason that in the Viggen, most of the time you use barometric pressure of the target area instead of rad alt so that you can operate in any terrain.

 

Obviously the best thing to use would be the DMT to get slant range/ AGL of target area, otherwise you are referring to maps, ground forces(JTAC) or preplanned targets to get your target area AGL.

 

Ok, I thought it meant the radar altimeter, which I thought might be more accurate than baro-alt. I know the NATOOPS goes into the order in one of the figures and radaralt is preferred over baro. And yes I understand the issue with the r-alt over un-even terrain. I would imagine you could flip from baro-alt to R-alt with the UFC switch, which doesn't seem to be the case.