Air-to-Air Combat Loadouts

[Blaze1]

I was wondering what the most efficient way to load 2 x Siderwinder, 3 x Sparrow and 2 x Phoenix would be?:

 

1) 2 x AIM-9 & 2 x AIM-7 on the glove stations, with a single AIM-7 in the rear tunnel station and 2 x AIM-54 on the forward tunnel stations.

 

2) 2 x AIM-9 & 2 x AIM-54 on the glove stations, with 3 x AIM-7 in the tunnel. With this loadout you don't have to carry the heavy AIM-54 pallets (2 x 1000lbs), but may suffer a little more drag from the glove stations.

[turkeydriver]

AIM-9 and AIM-7 on the gloves. AIM-54s impose a huge drag penalty and maneuver penalty on the gloves.

 

2 AIM-54 forward in the tunnel impose no maneuver limits and little drag

[Blaze1]

Cheers turkeydriver.:thumbup:

[Bad Idea Hat]

AIM-9 and AIM-7 on the gloves. AIM-54s impose a huge drag penalty and maneuver penalty on the gloves.

 

2 AIM-54 forward in the tunnel impose no maneuver limits and little drag

 

 

Is 4 in the tunnel such a major increase in drag that it makes more sense to carry 2 if I'm just patrolling with no expectation of contact? Or is this something I'm going to have to out on release?

[Swordsman422]

It'll get more interesting if you sim the Tomcat post-LANTIRN. In the late 90's, the LANTIRN pod was almost never downloaded, so your loadout would be more like 2 winders, 1 sparrow, 1 LANTIRN on the gloves, 2 phoenix on the forward pallets and 1 sparrow on the aft station. Or even a similar load with 1 Phoenix if you weren't expecting much action. Late in life you see some pretty odd asymmetrical loads.

[104th_Maverick]

Is 4 in the tunnel such a major increase in drag that it makes more sense to carry 2 if I'm just patrolling with no expectation of contact? Or is this something I'm going to have to out on release?

 

 

 

 

No, having 4 in the tunnel apart from the weight makes no real difference to the aircraft.

 

 

 

As mentioned before by Turkey there is a massive drag penalty for having the Phoenix on the glove stations.

[Bad Idea Hat]

;3803665']No, having 4 in the tunnel apart from the weight makes no real difference to the aircraft.

 

 

 

As mentioned before by Turkey there is a massive drag penalty for having the Phoenix on the glove stations.

 

 

He said two forward in the tunnel imposed nothing extra drag-wise, I was wondering if that changed by putting two in the back as well.

[RaceFuel85]

So in the opening flights of OIF in 2003...VF-2 flew a few dedicated CAP/Escort flights...

 

Does anyone know what that loadout was? Did they download the TGP?

[Blaze1]

He said two forward in the tunnel imposed nothing extra drag-wise, I was wondering if that changed by putting two in the back as well.

I don't know how it was for the Tomcat with weapons in the tunnel, but with other aircraft, having one weapon in the slipstream of another, sometimes does very little to it's drag index.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Blaze1

[104th_Maverick]

He said two forward in the tunnel imposed nothing extra drag-wise, I was wondering if that changed by putting two in the back as well.

 

 

No mate that's what I meant, having 4 in the tunnel instead of 2 doesn't make a huge difference, they fit very nice and tightly into the aircraft down there :)

 

Only issue is you can't land back on the boat with 4 of Phoenix still on board due to you being over the Maximum Landing Weight, so its a case of 'shoot em if you got em' before heading back to the boat.

[Swordsman422]

That's true for 6 phoenixes. 4 you can still land okay, you just won't have the gas for that many tries.

[Victory205]

This may help.

[Blaze1]

This may help.

Thanks for the info Victory. I thought the Phoenix rails were a thousand pounds a piece, but they're much less than that.

[104th_Maverick]

That's true for 6 phoenixes. 4 you can still land okay, you just won't have the gas for that many tries.

 

I stand corrected, I calculated the weight with full fuel tanks instead of empty.

 

With 2 empty tanks 4 Phoenix, 2 Sparrow and 2 Aim9, you can still have 3400lbs of fuel and 'just' be under MLW for the carrier.

 

Good call sir!

Edited February 18, 2019 by [Maverick]

[Blaze1]

So a phoenix on the glove station is far less draggy than in the tunnel with the weapons rail!

[Eldur]

Thanks for the info Victory. I thought the Phoenix rails were a thousand pounds a piece, but they're much less than that.

 

Well, if you add all the stuff up, it's 1930lb in total for 4 shots minus the missiles, which still is a lot

 

So a phoenix on the glove station is far less draggy than in the tunnel with the weapons rail!

 

On both stations they have a DI of 12, which is exactly the same. A rear one in the tunnel however has just 8.

 

Now I'm just wondering why anyone would do that:

 

I was wondering what the most efficient way to load 2 x Siderwinder, 3 x Sparrow and 2 x Phoenix would be?:

 

2) 2 x AIM-9 & 2 x AIM-54 on the glove stations, with 3 x AIM-7 in the tunnel. With this loadout you don't have to carry the heavy AIM-54 pallets (2 x 1000lbs), but may suffer a little more drag from the glove stations.

 

In that case, you could also just take the 4th Sparrow with little effort

[turkeydriver]

Again, let me remind everyone I am not a former Tomcat pilot- turkeydriver has just been my online handle since the Falcon 4 Delphi forums.

 

The tomcat does have issues with weight aft, if you're going out against unknown air threat on the opening day of a campaign- I wouldn't take more than the 2 big AIM-54s, 3 AIM-7 and a pair of AIM-9s. Only take 4 AIm-54s if you are expecting a bomber threat against your carrier.

[Blaze1]

On both stations they have a DI of 12, which is exactly the same. A rear one in the tunnel however has just 8.

 

Now I'm just wondering why anyone would do that:

The tunnel station is 12 for the missile + 10 for the rail, so 22 per weapon for each of the forward stations. The glove station is 12 for the missile + 3 for the pylon, so 15 in total.

 

A DI of 8 for a rear AIM-54, is only valid if it's in the slipstream of another AIM-54 ahead, which would mess up the loadout, as I don't think a Sparrow could then be added to the tunnel?

 

 

In that case, you could also just take the 4th Sparrow with little effort

I agree, Eldur. I was just curious about how the performance would vary given an identical number of weapons and type.:)

[Bad Idea Hat]

This may help.

 

Damn. This is what I was trying to create in spreadsheet form. Thanks for saving me the work.

 

Edit - Okay, quick math; 4 Phoenix, 2 sparrow and 2 sidewinder: fuel state for max trap is 1.2. Wee.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Bad Idea Hat

[Bad Idea Hat]

The tomcat does have issues with weight aft, if you're going out against unknown air threat on the opening day of a campaign- I wouldn't take more than the 2 big AIM-54s, 3 AIM-7 and a pair of AIM-9s. Only take 4 AIm-54s if you are expecting a bomber threat against your carrier.

 

I fly Georgia at War a lot, and one of the biggest threats we have is a pair of MiG-31s that skate on in to either break up out tankers and AWACS (Phase I), or interrupt our strike ops (Phase II). I could count on one hand the number of tines I either tanked during a CAP, or returned home with ordnance. I’ll probably be carrying 4 Phoenixes in the tunnel as SOP there.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Bad Idea Hat

[BlackLion213]

Damn. This is what I was trying to create in spreadsheet form. Thanks for saving me the work.

 

Edit - Okay, quick math; 4 Phoenix, 2 sparrow and 2 sidewinder: fuel state for max trap is 1.2. Wee.

 

Tomcats (and Intruders) have a fair bit of trapped fuel under normal conditions. F-14s have been known to flame out an engine with the totalizer reading as much as 700-800 lbs.

 

So that 1200 lbs is really more like 500 lbs of useable fuel. Not even enough for a single look at the deck. :)

 

-Nick

[turkeydriver]

I fly Georgia at War a lot, and one of the biggest threats we have is a pair of MiG-31s that skate on in to either break up out tankers and AWACS (Phase I), or interrupt our strike ops (Phase II). I could count on one hand the number of tines I either tanked during a CAP, or returned home with ordinance. I’ll probably be carrying 4 Phoenixes in the tunnel as SOP there.

 

Ordnance = weapons

Ordinance = rule, law

[Eldur]

Tomcats (and Intruders) have a fair bit of trapped fuel under normal conditions. F-14s have been known to flame out an engine with the totalizer reading as much as 700-800 lbs.

 

Is there a technical reason behind this?

[Bad Idea Hat]

Ordnance = weapons

Ordinance = rule, law

 

 

I mean, you're right, but it makes my brain melt a bit.

 

 

Tomcats (and Intruders) have a fair bit of trapped fuel under normal conditions. F-14s have been known to flame out an engine with the totalizer reading as much as 700-800 lbs.

 

So that 1200 lbs is really more like 500 lbs of useable fuel. Not even enough for a single look at the deck.

 

-Nick

 

 

Yeah, why the 1.2 number makes me kind of sweat without doing anything.

I should also say that the number is for the full 4-2-2 loadout, as well as the empty tanks still hanging on. I'd assume that I would ditch the empties for that sweet, sweet extra 500 pounds. I'm still sweating looking at that number.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Bad Idea Hat

[AH_Solid_Snake]

For a furball type server, depending on the weight / drag of the Phoenix rail adapters the 4 x AIM-7 / 2 x AIM-9 and 2 x AIM-54 may still be worth it if you have a reasonable certainty of lobbing those 54's at long range into a furball.

 

It gives you a couple of nice big sticks to throw people off balance while you burn through your external tanks in a draggy state before dropping them when the 54's are gone to end up with a still reasonably fully loaded clean jet for the merge.