Bombing: what am I aiming for??

[Oldfox]

Hi pilots!

 

I am reading again and again the manual about the various bombing methods and the more I read the more lost I am :doh:

 

For me it's really unclear what I am aiming for....

 

Well for CCIP it's pretty damn clear: set QFE (no radar ranging in this mode right?), target between the two HUD cues, FIRE!

 

BUT, what about level mode release? For example usually you will have a target nav point roughly around let's say an enemy tank, but not just on his roof.

 

So ... How do you aim for the tank itself? Do you have to fix the target point using the radar prior to the attack? Do you just "designate" the target by putting the dot sight on it and hitting arm unsafe? Is the radar ranging on the dot sight? Is it ranging on the target by slaving radar beam? Well I don't really get the details of this mode so I don't get how to use it efficiently.

 

 

Hope I am clear but I just don't get how you are really "designating" the real target in that kind of mode, this is pretty fuzzy in the manual. The various youtube tutorials are basically bombing over a target point so it doesn't help me much to get the details of this mode...

 

Thanks for the help!

 

 

edit: To be even clearer, my main comprehension issue is:

Manual says"Mode ANF. Target indicator ring on target position"

I ask: What if the damn circle isn't over my target? :D

Edited February 19, 2019 by Oldfox

[some1]

Yeah, I think nav point position matters only in the last mode (RR), which releases the bombs on target waypoint.

 

The way I understand it:

 

- In level bomb mode (ANF/PLAN), you designate the target by putting the sight on target and going trigger unsafe. Then you can level off and wait for the fire cue, much like using CCRP modes in other aircraft. Only I don't quite understand the sight movement after designation.

- In dive bombs (DYK), you perform the attack in a similar way to AKAN/ARAK. Keep the dot sight on target and drop the bombs when you see the fire cue.

[Oldfox]

That's also what I can read "between the lines" of the manual. But need to do some tests to get it I guess. Sad that this is not explained in the manual as in the "real life" case you will pretty much never have the target circle over your actual target....

 

In chuck's guide he even deactivates the radar ranging which seems pretty awkward as it would degrade precision.... and become equivalent to a CCIP bombing using QFE....

[TLTeo]

Yeah, I think nav point position matters only in the last mode (RR), which releases the bombs on target waypoint.

 

The way I understand it:

 

- In level bomb mode (ANF/PLAN), you designate the target by putting the sight on target and going trigger unsafe. Then you can level off and wait for the fire cue, much like using CCRP modes in other aircraft. Only I don't quite understand the sight movement after designation.

- In dive bombs (DYK), you perform the attack in a similar way to AKAN/ARAK. Keep the dot sight on target and drop the bombs when you see the fire cue.

 

 

Yep pretty much this. In level mode the movement of the sight movement basically guides you to the appropriate release altitude that's been preset for the bombs, which can be accessed in the mission editor. If I recall correctly, low level is a ~150 meters release, medium level is ~300, high level is ~600.

 

 

Do not follow Chuck's exact procedure because it is outdated. Radar ranging does not need to be disabled (I do not know where that came from), and neither does target movement (it was changed to be off by default a few months ago).

[Charly_Owl]

I'll have to update the procedure... I believe that information came from one of xxJohnxx's videos IIRC, which date back to the module's initial release... waaay before Heatblur updated their manual in the recent months.

 

Are the radar ranging and target movement the only things that need to be changed?

[TLTeo]

That and make sure to check the mission editor for the planned release altitude.

[Oldfox]

How is working the radar ranging itself? I don't really get.... It's slaved on the navigation target point or on the dot sight? In level release it would make sense if it was slaved on the target point, but if you aim at a different location using the dot sight then... it would need to change where the radar is looking?

 

Well I'm lost with that plane's systems :p

[TLTeo]

How is working the radar ranging itself? I don't really get.... It's slaved on the navigation target point or on the dot sight? In level release it would make sense if it was slaved on the target point, but if you aim at a different location using the dot sight then... it would need to change where the radar is looking?

 

Well I'm lost with that plane's systems :p

 

 

It's slaved on the dot point/reticle displayed in the center of the hud the moment you unsafe the trigger. After that it remains slaved on that point.

[Oldfox]

Ok but this would mean in level bombing even if target is perfectly marked by Mx point you still would have to point it with the dot sight, which is not the procedure from the manual?

But if you are right that is simpler to understand for me with that method :)

[corvinus]

Yes, the manual could be clearer in this respect. Also, you need to keep the dot on the target even after trigger UNSAFE, right? Keeping the dot on the target automatically steer you to the correct height?

[TLTeo]

Yes, the manual could be clearer in this respect. Also, you need to keep the dot on the target even after trigger UNSAFE, right? Keeping the dot on the target automatically steer you to the correct height?

 

 

That is my understanding yes

[Oldfox]

Well did some tests in level mode and indeed it seems to lock the point you have under the dot once unsafe. Then you can get back to level flight and the cue appears on the horizon so you can keep following it while flying level. But the funny thing is that I couldn’t do a release on a Mx nav point because it seems it’s mandatory to aim what you gonna bomb through the dot sight. And this is not what I understood in the manual , at least for level bombing.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Oldfox

[QuiGon]

Well did some tests in level mode and indeed it seems to lock the point you have under the dot once unsafe. Then you can get back to level flight and the cue appears on the horizon so you can keep following it while flying level. But the funny thing is that I couldn’t do a release on a Mx nav point because it seems it’s mandatory to aim what you gonna bomb through the dot sight. And this is not what I understood in the manual , at least for level bombing.

To drop bombs on nav points you have to use NAV bombing mode (submode of RR).

[Oldfox]

To drop bombs on nav points you have to use NAV bombing mode (submode of RR).

 

What lead me to a global misunderstanding is that the manual never state that you have to aim for anything in level mode.

 

So to sum it up, I guess in dive and level modes it is actually mandatory to first aim the target then trigger unsafe, and then go level in level mode or continue diving in dive mode. That sounds correct?

[QuiGon]

What lead me to a global misunderstanding is that the manual never state that you have to aim for anything in level mode.

 

So to sum it up, I guess in dive and level modes it is actually mandatory to first aim the target then trigger unsafe, and then go level in level mode or continue diving in dive mode. That sounds correct?

Yeah, only the RR modes are for blind attacks on targets designated either by waypoint (NAV/TOSS release mode) or by radar (Radar release mode).

[Oldfox]

By the way, tried quickly the RR mode and was really hard to place a mark on a little tank radar return... I was seeing the tank way better in A2 bscope mode, but apparently you just can't do a radar fix in Bscope? That's sad because it's the most precise picture I had, in A1 resolution is too low for a single target :(

[QuiGon]

By the way, tried quickly the RR mode and was really hard to place a mark on a little tank radar return... I was seeing the tank way better in A2 bscope mode, but apparently you just can't do a radar fix in Bscope? That's sad because it's the most precise picture I had, in A1 resolution is too low for a single target :(

This mode is not intended to be used against small targets like vehicles, but against bigger targets like buildings. The bombs in general are not intended for attacks against single vehiclesm, but rather against bigger formations and installations (e.g. supply depots).

[veenee]

Good bombing tutorials:

[corvinus]

By the way, tried quickly the RR mode and was really hard to place a mark on a little tank radar return... I was seeing the tank way better in A2 bscope mode, but apparently you just can't do a radar fix in Bscope? That's sad because it's the most precise picture I had, in A1 resolution is too low for a single target :(

 

 

I don't think RR bombing is really working correctly at the moment. Same holds for the A2 mode (or I just don't understand it ...).

[Oldfox]

Tried again RR and indeed can't shoot spot on... Placing radar cursor on the target, arm unsafe, trigger, it waits a bit of time to release.... and release too late and bombs fall to far behind. Strange.

[QuiGon]

Tried again RR and indeed can't shoot spot on... Placing radar cursor on the target, arm unsafe, trigger, it waits a bit of time to release.... and release too late and bombs fall to far behind. Strange.

Did you set QFE correctly and fly the commanded altitude during the attack run?

[Oldfox]

Qfe was okish as I set it over see before attacking a small flat island. About commanded altitude I'm less sure about that. Where does the commanded altitude come from?

[corvinus]

Did you set QFE correctly and fly the commanded altitude during the attack run?

 

This is important, but as the radar cue, the 3 km cross, is still misplaced it will not help much. See:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3592944&postcount=24

The bug was confirmed by HB, in post 25, but I do not think it has been fixed since.

[FSKRipper]

I would also like to know something. During DYK precision mode (set to ANF) and using a popup point I get no steering Information on the HUD for the popup Point, only for the target. This is different from the PLAN mode where you are guided to the P-Point and then the symbology switches to the real target. Is this intended?

[FSKRipper]

Any ideas on that? :cry: