Laptop for gaming (DCS)?s

[Swine]

Guys, I am kind of clueless here but I may be in a situation where I need to use a laptop for playing DCS for a period of time.

 

My s are - what would be the acceptable specs for say a 17 inch laptop to handle DCS? I don’t even know what’s considered high end in laptops. Anyway, I’ll start some research but thought I’d ask here and see if I can find some people with real experience and or knowledge of using a laptop with DCS and what works well etc.

Thanks

Edited March 4, 2019 by Swine

[Swine]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=203861&highlight=Laptop+specs

 

This link was informative but its a year old or so.

[Swine]

I guess my ? Is what graphics card would you guys shoot for that would handle a 17 inch laptop screen for DCS well?

[Svsmokey]

Re: graphics cards , screen size doesn't matter . Resolution does . I would ass-ume a 17 inch screen would be 1080p , but if 1440p , need a bigger card . 1070m or 2060m (if available) for 1080p , 1080m or 2070m (if available) for 1440p oughtta give you locked 60fps with very good (but not maxed) graphics settings . I am extrapolating these card recommendations from pc cards , with which i am more familiar , and bearing in mind that m-series cards are historically less capable than their pc counterparts .

Edited March 5, 2019 by Svsmokey

[Swine]

Thanks for the info. So m cards are for laptops. I’m getting the picture now.

[Dudikoff]

Thanks for the info. So m cards are for laptops. I’m getting the picture now.

 

They're not marked with "m" anymore as that used to mean gimped versions of the desktop chips (with lower GPU core unit numbers, etc).

 

They're just marked as e.g. 1080 (Notebook) now as the chips are the same now, it's just that the laptop versions have lower clock rates to reduce the TDP to something more manageable by the laptop's cooling system.

 

In slim & light laptops you normally get a Max-Q version of the same card which has its TDP limited even further in vBIOS. So, the performance also takes a hit and it's more often than not not worth the premium (e.g. 2070 Max-Q is only slightly faster than full 2060, but you pay the premium as for the full 2070 GPU which it essentially is, but you won't get the full performance out of it without modding the vBIOS or undervolting it).

 

Regarding your laptop query, the first thing you need to decide is whether you need something closer to a desktop replacement 17" laptop (which means 3.5 kg or more) or you want something more portable (i.e. these newer slimmer and lighter models at roughly 2.5 kg or less with Max-Q GPU's and normally higher CPU/GPU temps and louder fans).

 

If you want to save some money, it might be a good chance to score one of these older systems now being on clearance sales (with 10XX GPU's now since they are being replaced by 20XX GPU's which are not much faster, e.g. 10-20% between 1080 and 2080 on laptops IIRC) before they're sold out. E.g. Alienware 17 R5 or Aorus X9.

 

You could even aim at those older models with a quad-core CPU's like the unlocked 7820HK (as hexa core doesn't really bring anything to games except noticeably more heat to an already stretched laptop cooling system) since some of the better desktop replacement laptops with them haven't been refreshed yet (like e.g. HP Omen 17X or even Razer Blade Pro which has a 1080 Max-Q) as thin & light seem to be more popular these days.

 

There are also proper desktop replacement systems with upgradeable GPU's and sometimes even desktop CPU's, but those are much thicker and heavier usually (unless you opt for professional workstations with Quadro GPU cards like Dell 77XX or Lenovo P7X) that I personally don't see the point (like some Clevo or MSI models, e.g. P751 or GT75 variants). The exception might be the new Alienware Area 51m which is a newer case design than what MSI and Clevo use (which means thinner case and with smaller display bezels), but since they reduced the bezel size, they only have the FHD screen option currently. These large DTR's with desktop CPU's normally also require two power bricks for full performance which reduces the portability even further.

 

If you want some of these newer thinner and lighter laptops (with Max-Q GPU's), the 17" options are more limited compared to 15", but there's the new Alienware m17, Asus GX701 or MSI GS75 (with 20XX Max-Q GPU's), etc. but expect more noise with these.

 

Having mentioned these thin & lights, my favorite would be the Asus GX701 design and cooling-wise, though it's rather expensive and doesn't have a TB3 port nor a camera (there's a clip-on one included, though), plus the keyboard is pushed to the bottom edge to improve cooling and the touchpad is pushed to the right side, which could be off-putting to many, I guess. I'd love to get one, but I already have gotten a used Alienware 17 R4 with a 1080 card that I use for DCS on a 4K external monitor.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Dudikoff

[Swine]

Thank you for the detailed response. Very helpful

[Dudikoff]

Oh, BTW, there's also the thing called external graphics card for laptops. For that, you'd need a laptop with a Thunderbolt 3 port (full speed, ideally, as some laptops implement a half speed one) and a separate external graphics card case (which doesn't come cheaply) and then of course a separate desktop graphics card (and these new Nvidia cards cost a premium). And even then, you'd get a performance hit over TB3 usually which can vary from about 15-25% (compared to the performance of the same card in a desktop), depending on the game and resolution.

 

The problem might be that commonly used TB3 controllers show a bandwidth problem in more demanding games and higher resolutions (as IIRC, there was a test with a Macbook Pro where the losses were much smaller, presumably due to a better TB3 controller or something, but that's just a non-educated guess).

 

Alienware has a clear advantage here as they implement a proprietary connection for these (a direct PCI-E 3.0 x4 bus connection which takes a smaller performance hit, about 5% from what I've gathered) and they have their own external GPU case (which actually costs less than the competing TB3 options at around 200 USD or under).

 

This way, you could still use your laptop later on (rather than selling it for scrap) as a desktop of sorts (upgrading to a stronger graphics card), especially with an Alienware laptop. I got a used external graphics case for my AW 17 R4, but only the 2080Ti would be a worthy upgrade on the 1080 and it's exorbitantly expensive so I haven't tried that external GPU option yet.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Dudikoff

[BitMaster]

Oh, BTW, there's also the thing called external graphics card for laptops. For that, you'd need a laptop with a Thunderbolt 3 port (full speed, ideally, as some laptops implement a half speed one) and a separate external graphics card case (which doesn't come cheaply) and then of course a separate desktop graphics card (and these new Nvidia cards cost a premium). And even then, you'd get a performance hit over TB3 usually which can vary from about 15-25% (compared to the performance of the same card in a desktop), depending on the game and resolution.

 

The problem might be that commonly used TB3 controllers show a bandwidth problem in more demanding games and higher resolutions (as IIRC, there was a test with a Macbook Pro where the losses were much smaller, presumably due to a better TB3 controller or something, but that's just a non-educated guess).

 

Alienware has a clear advantage here as they implement a proprietary connection for these (a direct PCI-E 3.0 x4 bus connection which takes a smaller performance hit, about 5% from what I've gathered) and they have their own external GPU case (which actually costs less than the competing TB3 options at around 200 USD or under).

 

This way, you could still use your laptop later on (rather than selling it for scrap) as a desktop of sorts (upgrading to a stronger graphics card), especially with an Alienware laptop. I got a used external graphics case for my AW 17 R4, but only the 2080Ti would be a worthy upgrade on the 1080 and it's exorbitantly expensive so I haven't tried that external GPU option yet.

 

makes sense, if the OP really wants to buy a laptop.

 

Get the Full Coverage for 4-years on top of that, it will pay for itself, pretty sure it does.

[Swine]

This is the one I came up with. With help here. Thanks

 

 

Intel Core 8th Generation i7-8750H Processor (6 Core,2.20GHz,9MB Cache,45W

Windows 10 Home 64bit English

1TB 2.5inch SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)

512GB PCIe M.2 NVMe Class 50 Solid State Drive

32GB (2x16GB) 2666MHz DDR4 Non-ECC

17.3 inch QHD (2560 x 1440) 120Hz TN+WVA Anti-Glare 400-nits Display

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 OC 8GB GDDR5X

Black - LCD Cover with Tobii Eye Tracker

[Svsmokey]

Cpu makes me nervous . 4 cores at higher clock would be better . DCS recommends at least 2.8ghz , for "high" graphics 3ghz+ .

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/stable/

 

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/laptop.html

Edited March 6, 2019 by Svsmokey

[Swine]

Good point. Thanks

[Longjap]

Just FYI, not sure if you have unlimited funds or looking for some more budget laptops. I have great experience with my laptop which is a custom build. It's has a Clevo barebone housing, bought it a year ago. It's 15,6 inch though, but it's pretty large screen in itself, happily surprised by that and ofcourse you can just hook up any screen you want. When I looked into the Alienware and other brands they were much higher in price due to their brand for the same specs.

 

 

 

Another plus side is the housing looks pretty clean and anonymous and you can take it to work without looking like an overcompensating teenager with rgb laser lights coming from every angle.

 

 

 

I7 8700, gtx 1060 6gb, 2x8gb 2400mhz ram, 250 gb SSD, 1 TB sshd.

Runs like a charm, mostly high settings except heatblur and civil traffic, and around 1600 US dollars.

[Dudikoff]

Cpu makes me nervous . 4 cores at higher clock would be better . DCS recommends at least 2.8ghz , for "high" graphics 3ghz+ .

 

What are you on about? i7 8750h is a standard high end hexa-core CPU on laptops which goes up to 4.1 GHz on a single core and 3.9 GHz on all six cores which even a cursory Internet search would corroborate.

 

The only stronger laptop CPU in that generation is the i7 8950HK, but it's *much* more expensive with negligible gains in higher-res gaming, plus produces way more heat and is more often throttled than not, unless you're willing to repaste the heatsink (not an easy procedure) and undervolt it.

 

The only other option are DTR's with desktop CPU's, but that usually means much fatter laptop cases (except the Area 51m), more weight and dual power supplies which kind of kills the point of having a laptop, IMHO. Plus, the only slight gains in gaming performance are not really worth the extra price and portability loss.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Dudikoff

[BitMaster]

I personally doubt that the mentioned cpu will run at said speed for longer than 3 minutes until its gets heat loaded and must clock down.

I am happy if I am wrong here, don’t misunderstand me.

 

Cooling is the Achilles‘ tendon of any mobile device

[Dudikoff]

I personally doubt that the mentioned cpu will run at said speed for longer than 3 minutes until its gets heat loaded and must clock down.

I am happy if I am wrong here, don’t misunderstand me.

 

That depends if we're talking about the CPU load only or combined CPU+GPU.

 

It should handle this speed for the fully loaded CPU, while if combined with the GPU also fully loaded, it would throttle down, naturally, as the GPU TDP is huge.

 

IIRC, the notebookcheck test showed 2.8 GHz average on a full CPU/GPU load for 60 minutes, but those numbers may vary as not all the heatsinks are mounted ideally (as technicians install them manually, unfortunately, plus there are some manufacturing variations in the heatsinks themselves). Also, they don't repaste the heatsinks nor use undervolting which would improve those results noticeably, I guess.

 

But, what's the point you're trying to make? DCS (or any other game, for that matter) doesn't provide a constant max CPU load, it's probably closer to 30-40% on average on my laptop, IIRC.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Dudikoff

[BitMaster]

Imho, it's gonna fight the heat and loose the battle, 30-60min into the fight.

 

If the coolers for CPU + GPU are combined things will get hairy.

 

I have seen a badly mounted cooler fail in AbuDhabi's 50°C summer, on a 5k Dell Precision WS Laptop. It got fixed by Dell but the customer never touched that device again after it failed and he didnt buy Dell again. SHit happens on either end.

 

About 3 months ago I tried to repaste my Asus G73 as it went 80-100°C in firefox. End result, I threw it away, aka took it apart and kept some parts. Sad but true. It was such a mess to do that that I failed, waahaa

 

I am not sure if that matters for DCS with its few cores active, the buyer will find out.

[Svsmokey]

Imho, it's gonna fight the heat and loose the battle, 30-60min into the fight.

 

If the coolers for CPU + GPU are combined things will get hairy.

 

I have seen a badly mounted cooler fail in AbuDhabi's 50°C summer, on a 5k Dell Precision WS Laptop. It got fixed by Dell but the customer never touched that device again after it failed and he didnt buy Dell again. SHit happens on either end.

 

About 3 months ago I tried to repaste my Asus G73 as it went 80-100°C in firefox. End result, I threw it away, aka took it apart and kept some parts. Sad but true. It was such a mess to do that that I failed, waahaa

 

I am not sure if that matters for DCS with its few cores active, the buyer will find out.

 

Would a 1080p display mitigate heat/performance issues ?

Edited March 6, 2019 by Svsmokey

[BitMaster]

Would a 1080p display mitigate heat/performance issues ?

 

no, if you still drive the fps all the way up so that the GPU is at 100% it'll be pretty much the same heat.