Nevada Guns Only (vs F-16C) - Advice Needed

[ClearDark]

So far loving the F-14, its an amazing module.

 

 

I've been doing the instant mission for Gunzo dogfight vs the F-16, and for the life of me I cannot get this thing infront of me to get a clean shot.

 

 

Now I do know that in a pure turn and burn fight, the F-16's 9g's can ridicule the F-14's 6.5g's, but I'm sure I'm probably fighting this entirely wrong.

 

Any suggestions on how to defeat a better/tighter turner in a knife fight? Much help would be appreciated.

 

 

Thanks!

[Jester986]

Only way I've beaten him is by flying a canyon at full burner until he hits a wall...

[BlackLion213]

So far loving the F-14, its an amazing module.

 

 

I've been doing the instant mission for Gunzo dogfight vs the F-16, and for the life of me I cannot get this thing infront of me to get a clean shot.

 

 

Now I do know that in a pure turn and burn fight, the F-16's 9g's can ridicule the F-14's 6.5g's, but I'm sure I'm probably fighting this entirely wrong.

 

Any suggestions on how to defeat a better/tighter turner in a knife fight? Much help would be appreciated.

 

 

Thanks!

 

This mission is very win-able and the F-16 follows very predictable tactics.

 

I typically hit the merge at 450 kias (more is counterproductive imho) and roll to a 65 deg aob and perform an inclined 2 circle fight. Your turn should be around 8 G and 15 units AOA with wings around 45-50 deg (in auto). You will end the 180 deg turn with about 350 kias and keep it there. The F-16 will be slightly above you and heading downhill for another head to head pass. Initiate a break into him slightly nose down at 320-350 kias (wings 20) and maintain light to medium buffet for 15-17 units AOA. Usually the F-16 then overbanks and pulls down the nose to take the fight down low. Use your rudder and roll to place him on your lift vector and pull down your nose to follow him. You should now be creeping into a good nose position and the F-16 is flying slower than it should. The F-14 holds a “G available” advantage at all speeds below Mach 0.6 so keep the F-16 turning at all times.

 

From here on out you should be modulating stick to maintain light buffet, stick centered, and roll with the rudders. Maintain your energy and you should have a guns solution in about 1-3 minutes.

 

I’ve flown this mission at least 100 times (I made it after all) and haven’t lost it or run out of fuel for something like a year.

 

The F-14B can definitely win it consistently. :)

 

-Nick

[Scotch75]

So far loving the F-14, its an amazing module.

 

 

 

 

 

I've been doing the instant mission for Gunzo dogfight vs the F-16, and for the life of me I cannot get this thing infront of me to get a clean shot.

 

 

 

 

 

Now I do know that in a pure turn and burn fight, the F-16's 9g's can ridicule the F-14's 6.5g's, but I'm sure I'm probably fighting this entirely wrong.

 

 

 

Any suggestions on how to defeat a better/tighter turner in a knife fight? Much help would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

@ClearDark I know how you feel. I must have tried this mission 40 times and I have not had 1 legitimate guns kill. Either he gets me, or he runs out of fuel.

 

I've tried vertical, but lose too much energy. I try to pull any lead whatsoever, my airspeed bleeds off too much. The F16 seems to have limitless energy and extreme turning capability. I've even tried extending in full AB then going vertical again, and he just follows me up, with lead pursuit, so I fly into his hail of 20mm. Man its frustrating.

 

Is there any way to dumb the AI down (I know the AI is dumb and predictable anyway, but man, they seem impossible to shake off your six)?

[lemoen]

If you apply some basic BFM tactics you can easily outfly the AI. They are particularly susceptible to yo-yos and lag displacement rolls. Use the latter to stay inside their tighter turning circles but be careful of ripping your wings off.

[ClearDark]

I'd like a track or TacView of anyone who tackles that F-16 "easily"...Using all the BFM i've learned in the past years and there's nothing I can do to get him in front of me for a shot before his fuel runs out.

[backspace340]

This mission is very win-able and the F-16 follows very predictable tactics.

 

I typically hit the merge at 450 kias (more is counterproductive imho) and roll to a 65 deg aob and perform an inclined 2 circle fight. Your turn should be around 8 G and 15 units AOA with wings around 45-50 deg (in auto). You will end the 180 deg turn with about 350 kias and keep it there. The F-16 will be slightly above you and heading downhill for another head to head pass. Initiate a break into him slightly nose down at 320-350 kias (wings 20) and maintain light to medium buffet for 15-17 units AOA. Usually the F-16 then overbanks and pulls down the nose to take the fight down low. Use your rudder and roll to place him on your lift vector and pull down your nose to follow him. You should now be creeping into a good nose position and the F-16 is flying slower than it should. The F-14 holds a “G available” advantage at all speeds below Mach 0.6 so keep the F-16 turning at all times.

 

From here on out you should be modulating stick to maintain light buffet, stick centered, and roll with the rudders. Maintain your energy and you should have a guns solution in about 1-3 minutes.

 

I’ve flown this mission at least 100 times (I made it after all) and haven’t lost it or run out of fuel for something like a year.

 

The F-14B can definitely win it consistently. :)

 

-Nick

 

Thanks for that - really interesting. I assume you're using full burner the entire time, or are you at mil power or doing something more complicated with your throttle?

[Lord_Pyro]

Would like to see a video of it too. Feeling like a complete newcomer :P

[key_stroked]

Something I've noticed is that if you descend a bit before the merge he will go into a diving loop, and if you merge above him he will do a climbing loop.

 

I tried dipping down slightly early, and when he committed to a dive I went vertical and waited with a higher energy potential for him to bleed his airspeed at the top of his next yo-yo. If you're above him when he's at the top of his loop and you have smash and he doesn't, you can get behind him and follow him down for the kill.

[1Shot1KiLL]

So far loving the F-14, its an amazing module.

 

 

I've been doing the instant mission for Gunzo dogfight vs the F-16, and for the life of me I cannot get this thing infront of me to get a clean shot.

 

 

Now I do know that in a pure turn and burn fight, the F-16's 9g's can ridicule the F-14's 6.5g's, but I'm sure I'm probably fighting this entirely wrong.

 

Any suggestions on how to defeat a better/tighter turner in a knife fight? Much help would be appreciated.

 

 

Thanks!

 

do a Rolling scizors with him. slow down and hit your flaps to get better lift. you fighting against the AI so he will take the bait. and wont try and keep his speed up and climb while you trying to get him in a scizor fight. another tip : dont make your plane shake (buffet ) much. it should turn very nicely without buffeting all that much. the plane talks to you in that sence. be gentle with it. and keep in mind the AI uses simplified flight dynamisc so it fly like a UFO

 

P.S: its easy man. kild him at my first go. he climbs alot to his stall limit. go up there with him and before you stall out hit your flaps to delay your stall. he will put his nose down first. you stall out and will recover behined him with all the slow speed turning advantage in the World. after that he will keep trying to climb but he doesnt have the energy left to be efective anymore. just kill him. easy peesy. ahhhh and jettison those tanks :=)

Edited March 19, 2019 by 1Shot1KiLL

[Lord_Pyro]

I got him while i was fooling around with the combat flaps for the first time :D That way i could outturn him, he crossed my nose and got snapshotted :D Less than 2 mins :)

[Scotch75]

Geez, this seems impossible. I've tried now about 60 times, no-joy. He gets on my 6 after the first turn, then I cant shake him. I either lose all of my energy trying to pull leaf, or I destroy the aircraft with over G. Can someone please post a YouTube video or something on how to do this.

 

Much appreciated.

[backspace340]

Black Lion's advice was perfect - just try not to exceed 15-17 units of AOA at any point in the fight, I just pegged my AOA at 15, tried to put my speed at around 0.6 mach and then just reeled him in. The AOA indicator is just below the HUD - for the first turn I cut my throttle till I was at M0.7 and then just went full burner for the rest of the fight. Video here:

 

Pretty sure the people that are struggling are pulling 20-25 AOA and wasting all your energy.

[Donut]

Black Lion's advice was perfect - just try not to exceed 15-17 units of AOA at any point in the fight, I just pegged my AOA at 15, tried to put my speed at around 0.6 mach and then just reeled him in. The AOA indicator is just below the HUD - for the first turn I cut my throttle till I was at M0.7 and then just went full burner for the rest of the fight. Video here:

 

Pretty sure the people that are struggling are pulling 20-25 AOA and wasting all your energy.

 

Wow backspace, impressive flying! Thanks for the video!

 

What were your control inputs (stick, rudder) like during the maneuvering?

[backspace340]

Wow backspace, impressive flying! Thanks for the video!

 

What were your control inputs (stick, rudder) like during the maneuvering?

 

I basically just held the stick at a point to hold the AOA at 15, and didn't do much else! It looks impressive but it's really not, it's all about controlling the AOA and then just waiting to reel them in. Against a player you'd probably have to do some of that fancy pilot shit, but against the AI it's that simple every time - I repeated the same tactics against the F-15C, Hornet, Su-27 and F-5 and it worked against them all.

 

There's a longer unedited video showing that here:

 

First opponent is an F-15, then Hornet, then F-16, then a couple of F-5s.

[Scotch75]

I basically just held the stick at a point to hold the AOA at 15, and didn't do much else! It looks impressive but it's really not, it's all about controlling the AOA and then just waiting to reel them in. Against a player you'd probably have to do some of that fancy pilot shit, but against the AI it's that simple every time - I repeated the same tactics against the F-15C, Hornet, Su-27 and F-5 and it worked against them all.

 

 

 

There's a longer unedited video showing that here:

 

 

 

First opponent is an F-15, then Hornet, then F-16, then a couple of F-5s.

@backspace340: Hey mate, thanks heaps for that. It improved my flying dramatically. He still ran out of fuel just before I could peg him, but he didn't get any shots on me.

 

Cheers!

[ClearDark]

I basically just held the stick at a point to hold the AOA at 15, and didn't do much else! It looks impressive but it's really not, it's all about controlling the AOA and then just waiting to reel them in. Against a player you'd probably have to do some of that fancy pilot shit, but against the AI it's that simple every time - I repeated the same tactics against the F-15C, Hornet, Su-27 and F-5 and it worked against them all.

 

There's a longer unedited video showing that here:

 

First opponent is an F-15, then Hornet, then F-16, then a couple of F-5s.

 

 

That did it! The steady 15-17 AOA does the trick, managed to score my first kill on him. Awesome stuff!

 

I'm wondering, how did you get the enemy planes to show up that big in VR? Mine look alot "smaller", using HTC Vive

[backspace340]

I'm wondering, how did you get the enemy planes to show up that big in VR? Mine look alot "smaller", using HTC Vive

 

I've got labels on in that video - not sure I've done anything particular other than that, I run 1.4PD and MSAA x2 on a Samsung Odyssey (OG not the +).