Transition from bvr to wvr

[DeltaMike]

RIO in training here, with question about workflow management in the transition from bvr into turning dogfight. How do you guys hand off between pilot and RIO acm modes?

 

I'm assuming RIO is gonna try to get the bad guy locked up manually. If that doesn't work, it sounds like MRL is kind of useless. Does RIO try VSL or does he just say "YOU lock him up" and assume the pilot will take over VSL or what-have-you

 

From the back seat it looks like VSL is momentary, so I guess you hold the switch and wait for the lock?

[Tirak]

The way me and my buddy do it is a simple handoff. If I think I've got the better chance I'll call "Radar is mine". If he thinks he has the better chance or it's outside of range he'll say something akin to"Give me back the radar" which I'll then either respond a negative or "You have the Radar." If I don't take the radar by using the PLM or calling it, the RIO keeps trying to do his job. If you want to remind the pilot he might have an easier time that's fine, but until the pilot takes the initiative you're running the microwave.

[probad]

depends on your relationship right?

i talk with my pilot through the entire engagement so we both can suss out each others confidence levels and it becomes trivial to figure out who to defer to as the fight develops.

just announce your actions for clarity.

[Pikey]

It's not as hard to figure out as you might think. It's mainly driven by tally/no joy.

 

 

If the lock is lost somehow, and that does happen, I found that it's down to the reliability and confidence the RIO has with the SA on his brain/scope. By that I mean that I tell the pilot when I don't have confidence in it, we are too close, couldn't get a reliable lock or whatever and suggest he uses eyeballs and takes over. I say it quite deliberately as you get a very bad feeling if you get close without tally, and it's the one thing you are looking for, since radar has poor coverage close in.

 

 

At the point where it's too close and we are merging or already merged then the harder thing is to get the head back down to the TID to see if it had a momentary glimpse of an update, because once heads up, heads down is hard and vice-versa. Whereas the pilot can have the comfort of being heads up nearly all the time, so it is indeed pretty much driven by the RIO when it's me (I have an easy and trusting pilot) and either having the lock or not, joining the visual arena.

[Home Fries]

The key is assertive crew coordination. There are times to ask questions and times to be directive. Those times aren't set in stone, but depend on with whom you fly and your comfort level with them.

 

A pilot should always announce when he's taking the radar. Otherwise, a RIO going into super search can ruin a pilot's track. Similarly, a pilot should announce when he no longer needs the radar, either because the target is splashed or he lost lock and can't get it back. Similarly, if a pilot takes the radar, the RIO should go to the ATTK display so he gets a repeater of the STT symbology. However, if the RIO goes to TCS mode (which is normal in WVR combat), the only way to know if the lock is broken is to look at the DDD, and even then it's quicker and better for the pilot to tell the RIO so he doesn't have to interpret the DDD.

 

If I'm RIO and I notice that the bandit is splashed, unless we're still in WVR with tally on multiple bandits I notify the pilot that I'm taking the radar. At that point, he can be directive with me if he wants to keep the radar. If a pilot is maneuvering and isn't specifying what he's doing with the radar (or if I see us still in TWS), I'll tell the pilot that I'm giving him VSL High unless he wants VSL Low. Then all he needs to do is put his lift vector on the bandit. Sometimes the pilots are too busy maneuvering to think about the radar, and this is where a good RIO can help in WVR.

 

Finally, if a bandit breaks 10nm, I'll notify the pilot to go to ACM mode and have him start thinking about taking the radar. The closer the bandit is and the more vertical displacement that exists between the F-14 and the bandit, the more difficult it will be to get the bandit on radar from the back seat. Times like this I'll recommend VSL high, then be more directive as we approach 5nm.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Home Fries

[DeltaMike]

Thanks. Most important theme is the positive handoff, "You have the radar." Sounds like VSL high is a good way to nudge things in the right direction

[IronMike]

It really boils down to crew management.

 

Most hand off the radar at PAL range if situation allows, which would be around 15nm. Good RIOs will already setup VSL HI or VLS LO for you though, once you hit the 5nm mark.

 

Personally when I fly, I only "grab" the radar for PAL, mostly following my RIO saying "radar is yours" and in a dogfight I ask him for VSLs depending on RIO. Some RIOs I trust to give me the correct VSL more.

 

When he is centered within 5nm on the nose, I use PLM though.

 

The imoprtant thing is to use good communications and keep each other informed, so that actions by pilot and RIO do not cancel each other out.

[Donut]

It really boils down to crew management.

 

Most hand off the radar at PAL range if situation allows, which would be around 15nm. Good RIOs will already setup VSL HI or VLS LO for you though, once you hit the 5nm mark.

 

Personally when I fly, I only "grab" the radar for PAL, mostly following my RIO saying "radar is yours" and in a dogfight I ask him for VSLs depending on RIO. Some RIOs I trust to give me the correct VSL more.

 

When he is centered within 5nm on the nose, I use PLM though.

 

The imoprtant thing is to use good communications and keep each other informed, so that actions by pilot and RIO do not cancel each other out.

 

Great stuff! Thanks!

 

Will the handing off of radar and handling of VSL modes be implemented with the Jester AI as well?

[IronMike]

Great stuff! Thanks!

 

Will the handing off of radar and handling of VSL modes be implemented with the Jester AI as well?[/quote

 

I don't think so, since Jester knows when you enter WVR and it is thus kind of obsolete. It would be a nice touch of course, but I think there would be more pressing issues to introduce first. The main problem is though: Jester cannot really know you and what personal preferences you have as a pilot, like a real RIO would. Some players might develop a different style and push PAL launches down to 10nm etc, so this mutual understanding of two individuals of flesh and blood is not really possible and could benefit one player, but "upset" another. Probably best to leave it so that you just "grab" it with your target designator controls.