[FIXED] Maverick Locks during skew to target point

[Harker]

This has been an ongoing issue since we the introduction of the AGM-65F, but I haven't seen it addressed. When the missile is uncaged (automatically or manually) after a target designation, it attempts to look towards the target point and lock whatever might be there. If, at any point before reaching the target point, the seeker happens to pass over a valid target within range of the seeker, it'll lock it up instead. It doesn't matter how the target is designated, it occurs both with WPDSG, HUD diamond slewing and the LITENING.

 

As I understand it, the seeker should only attempt a lock after it looks at the target point or by commanding a lock with TDC Depress, not throughout its entire travel arc, from caged to the target point. As it stands, the seeker is frequently stuck looking at something far away from the target point. The problem comes from the fact that the seeker is looking for valid targets as soon as it is uncaged.

 

Track added.

FA-18C_AGM-65F sensor uncage bug.trk

Edited August 6, 2019 by Harker
added track file

[theinmigrant]

Track attached! :):):)

[Harker]

Track attached! :):):)

Thanks for adding a track :) I just got home.

 

Agree, this has nothing to do with the TGP. It occurs when any target designation occurs.

[NineLine]

Can you re-attach the track, moving and such seems to have lost it.

[Harker]

Can you re-attach the track, moving and such seems to have lost it.

I added a track to the first post.

[theinmigrant]

Can you re-attach the track, moving and such seems to have lost it.

 

I don't see them either, nor I see the one Harker put in the first post :(

 

Here the one I had put, hope we can all see it.

MAV F slave throughbug.trk

[NineLine]

Thanks will check it tonight or in the morning!

[NineLine]

I added a track to the first post.

 

Don't see it.

[Harker]

Don't see it.

Oops, my bad, sorry. I selected the track but didn't click "Upload", apparently. It's up now.

[NineLine]

Thanks

[NineLine]

I don't see them either, nor I see the one Harker put in the first post :(

 

Here the one I had put, hope we can all see it.

 

Ok I am seeing in your track that the Maverick skews past the target point is that right? I didnt see it lock onto something else during the skew like the OP?

[NineLine]

Ok, I think the bug is related to the unrealistic TDC option for the Maverick, it seems when using the realistic one, it reacts better, not trying to lock on to anything as it moves or stops. Although I am seeing something else going on that after I skew it to a TGT point once, it won't skew again.

[theinmigrant]

Ok I am seeing in your track that the Maverick skews past the target point is that right? I didnt see it lock onto something else during the skew like the OP?

 

Yeah, but the reproduction of the issue is the same IMO: If the mav seeker goes over a target even if it wasnt the point you designated it will still lock it. If you would have had two tanks in that track it would have locked the other one.

 

I hope it still helps the team. If not, you still have Harker's track now uploaded.

 

 

Thanks!

[theinmigrant]

Ok, I think the bug is related to the unrealistic TDC option for the Maverick, it seems when using the realistic one, it reacts better, not trying to lock on to anything as it moves or stops. Although I am seeing something else going on that after I skew it to a TGT point once, it won't skew again.

 

BTW I have realistic tdc and I always had this issue.

[Harker]

I watched theinmigrant's track. We're not saying the same thing (but thanks for contributing anyway). The bug I'm referring to is that the seeker will get stuck on a random valid object (contrast is high enough) on its way to the designated target, assuming the object is close enough to be picked up (~10-12nm max range).

 

This makes the auto-uncage/auto-slew function of the missile completely useless in a lot of scenarios, forcing you to undesignate the target and find it manually with the seeker. It only works reliably when designating from a higher altitude, generally far away from the target.

[theinmigrant]

I watched theinmigrant's track. We're not saying the same thing. The bug I'm referring to is that the seeker will get stuck on a random valid object (contrast is high enough) on its way to the designated target, assuming the object is close enough to be picked up (~10-12nm max range).

 

This makes the auto-uncage/auto-slew function of the missile completely useless in a lot of scenarios, forcing you to undesignate the target and find it manually with the seeker. It only works reliably when designating from a higher altitude, generally far away from the target.

 

Same thing, watch the entire track :)

 

At the end I show how a tank, in the middle of the movement towards a different TGT, is locked by the seeker.

[NineLine]

Your track might still be an issue, just perhaps a different one, Target Points with the TGP can be a little sketchy right now it seems.

 

Right now I am seeing:

 

With Realistic TDC: Skews to target properly, but if I re-cage and try to skew to the same target it won't do it.

 

Without Realistic TDC: Seeker will skew, but will be trying to lock the whole time and most likely lock on something it shouldn't, it shouldn't be trying to lock at all as I understand it.

[theinmigrant]

Your track might still be an issue, just perhaps a different one, Target Points with the TGP can be a little sketchy right now it seems.

 

Right now I am seeing:

 

With Realistic TDC: Skews to target properly, but if I re-cage and try to skew to the same target it won't do it.

 

Without Realistic TDC: Seeker will skew, but will be trying to lock the whole time and most likely lock on something it shouldn't, it shouldn't be trying to lock at all as I understand it.

 

For me target points with the TGP are exactly 100% in the same position as if it was a waypoint, so the TGP works perfect as of now. I tested it A LOT.

 

The issue in positioning is reported in another thread I made (still unmarked) and it has to do with the MAV F not the TGP. Also tested this a lot.

 

I strongly think we are talking about the same thing here. But the point here is to help so it doesn't matter what track gets used to show to the team.

 

 

Thanks.

[NineLine]

In Addition, I am not so sure the seeker head is right, right now, if you slew to a target point, the seeker won't stay focused there, it continues to move with the movements of the aircraft, I am just wondering out loud if that is wrong as well, and shouldn't remain focused on that location, just not locked, only moving if it hits gimbal limits.

[Harker]

Same thing, watch the entire track :)

 

 

 

At the end I show how a tank, in the middle of the movement towards a different TGT, is locked by the seeker.

Ah, ok, it makes sense now. I might've missed that initially. It's pretty late here :P.

Are you using realistic TDC slew, btw ?

[Harker]

Your track might still be an issue, just perhaps a different one, Target Points with the TGP can be a little sketchy right now it seems.

 

Right now I am seeing:

 

With Realistic TDC: Skews to target properly, but if I re-cage and try to skew to the same target it won't do it.

 

Without Realistic TDC: Seeker will skew, but will be trying to lock the whole time and most likely lock on something it shouldn't, it shouldn't be trying to lock at all as I understand it.

 

That's interesting, I'm using Realistic TDC Slew (have to depress the TDC to slew) and what the seeker does is exactly what you describe in your Non-Realistic TDC scenario, BUT only if the seeker is uncaged in order to auto-slew to a target point.

If I don't designate a target point, I can fly with the seeker uncaged all day and it won't lock unless I command lock via the TDC.

 

In my track, the first time I show it working correctly is simply to outline that it works OK when there are no objects to lock, since I was further away. The problem can certainly occur in the first uncage, if there are valid objects between the seeker boresight and the target point.

[NineLine]

That is interesting, I didn't have any issue with Realistic TDC Slew, except for the inability to slew a second time which is already reported.

 

The part where it locks on route to a target point I have now reported as well. I will continue to check and see if I can reproduce with realistic slew though.

[Harker]

Thanks, NL! I'll also do some tests tomorrow, after I get home from work, I'll try with both realistic or unrealistic.

[Harker]

In Addition, I am not so sure the seeker head is right, right now, if you slew to a target point, the seeker won't stay focused there, it continues to move with the movements of the aircraft, I am just wondering out loud if that is wrong as well, and shouldn't remain focused on that location, just not locked, only moving if it hits gimbal limits.

I seem to reading that this was normal; the seeker will only space-stabilize if the TDC is pressed or it locks a target. Otherwise, if it can't find anything, it goes into break mode. It does seem inconvenient though, since you have to fly with your finger pressing the TDC, if you want to maneuver and keep the target area in sight. A confirmation with either devs or SMEs wouldn't hurt

Edited August 6, 2019 by Harker

[Harker]

I did two more tests (tracks included), one with Realistic TDC and one with Unrealistic TDC. No difference, as far as the bug goes. Check them out. I'm also causing the bug to occur with the first uncage as well.

FA-18C_AGM-65F sensor uncage bug_2.trk

FA-18C_AGM-65F sensor uncage bug_2_Unrealistic TDC.trk