F/A-18C / A-10C Grips

[Adrian858]

Hey folks,

 

 

 

 

Tried to do some searching, but sadly there's not too much material on it yet. I just got my TM F/A-18 grip last night (so exciting!), and put it on the TM base today and I thought it would register as another stick entirely. So I have a couple questions for those that will be swapping between the F/A-18 and A-10 grip for flying certain modules.

 

 

Realizing that the already binded controls in DCS are from my A-10 stick, if I switch over to the F/A-18 grip and rebind some things, I'm going to assume the original bindings if I put the A-10 stick back on are going to require changing again (since it doesn't create a new identifier / stick that can be modified in the controls). So first question of the day!

 

Are you using a separate base to switch between the two? Or are you using the TARGET software to create a new profile that you can swap?

 

Second question, if you are swapping the stick using TARGET, would DCS require a restart to recognize the change?

 

Or maybe someone has thought of another solution to this predicament that they're willing to share!

 

 

 

Also, as per the manual:

5/8T.A.R.G.E.T. ADVANCED PROGRAMMING SOFTWARE(Thrustmaster Advanced pRogramming Graphical EdiTor) Go to https://support.thrustmaster.com. Select Joysticks / Hotas Warthog or F/A-18C Hornet, then select Software. Download and install the T.A.R.G.E.T. advanced programming software.

T.A.R.G.E.T. main specifications:

- Identification and differentiation of the F/A-18C Hornet handle and the A10-C handle.

- Multiple axis configurations.

- Multiple programming levels: Basic, Advanced and Script. - ‘Drag and Drop’ controls.

- Ability to combine the F/A-18C Hornet with other Thrustmaster joysticks (Hotas Cougar, Hotas Warthog, T.16000M, TWCS Throttle, TFRP Rudder, TPR Pendular Rudder, MFD Cougar Pack), also compatible with T.A.R.G.E.T., allowing controllers to be recognized as a single USB device.

- Access to advanced profiles created by the Thrustmaster community

 

 

In TARGET, when I put the F/A-18 grip on, it still states that the F18 grip is "disconnected" but everything works fine. Highlighted in green above is where I thought it would create a new identifier in DCS.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Adrian858

[Drakoz]

Some suggestions:

 

Did you unplug the USB cable before mounting the stick. The F18 grip manual doesn't say, and it should! The Warthog manual might say, but who pulled that out to check. :) Anyway, these weren't really designed to be hot swapable, and even if your computer is off, the USB ports are still powered up. Though swapping them while powered is not likely to cause damage (just make sure you discharge static electricity between you, the grip, and the base before plugging it in), but the Warthog base's software does some initialization through the DIN connector when it powers up, or is reset. So that is one possible issue.

 

Are you sure you have the latest firmware on your Warthog base? There was an update last year. the update doesn't specifically say it supports the F18 grip, but it might and they just didn't say anything in the release notes. Check out the support page for the F18 Grip for downloads: https://support.thrustmaster.com/en/product/f-a-18c-hornet-hotas-add-on-grip-en/

 

If you are using TARGET, you need to get the latest version also. It too was updated last year, so maybe same as the firmware - maybe they did the F18 updates last year and didn't list it in the release notes.

 

Regarding rebinding keys in DCS, each aircraft has their own bindings. So if you bind the A10C grip on the DCS A10C module, then bind the F18 grip on the DCS F18, these should have no impact on each other. But I would un plug and re-plug the Warthog base not only to swap the handle, but also to make sure DCS sees that the stick has changed (if it matters).

 

DCS does not require a restart when swapping any USB controller (Warthog A10C vs. F18 or anything else). It also doesn't need to be restarted just because you run a different TARGET profile. DCS accepts hot swapping of USB game controllers just fine. You can do it even while flying. You only need to refer to my previous comments about disconnecting the USB cable, and rerunning a new profile in TARGET. I.e. you don't even have to restart TARGET. It only looks for TM devices when you compile and run the TARGET script.

 

I hope this helps.

[Adrian858]

Hey Drakoz,

 

 

Firmware was the first thing I did, but after I had already put the F18 Grip on the base, did a reinstall with the A10 stick back on it, same thing.

 

 

Similar to what imacken mentioned in his post here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3993473&postcount=31

 

I find that regardless of which stick is on the base, they utilize the exact same keybinds as per button number. This would become problematic if I wanted to use two different stick bindings for one aircraft, rather than constantly switching out the stick to avoid unnecessary wear and tear.

 

I'm mainly playing around with some ideas, and seeing what other methods people are using to adapt. The easiest way I could think of would just be to buy an additional base.

[Drakoz]

This would become problematic if I wanted to use two different stick bindings for one aircraft, rather than constantly switching out the stick to avoid unnecessary wear and tear.

 

Ah, ya that is a problem. As far as I know, DCS has no clue which grip is installed. The USB ID's and device names don't change with a different grip.

 

I always use TARGET and I program all my TM controls to press the default keyboard key combos as defined in DCS. The only thing I define in DCS itself are to map the axis. Obviously this is one way to solve it.

 

But if you want to do this by mapping buttons as DirectX buttons in DCS, I think the only solution short of buying a 2nd base is to swap the LUA configuration files for the Warthog when you swap the grips.

 

I know a lot of people prefer to program everything through DCS instead of TARGET. Either is a good way to do it. But issues like what you describe, and also because DCS sometimes clobbers the controller config LUA files after an update, I avoid mapping controllers in DCS as much as I can. It is frustrating because DCS has an excellent system for mapping complex controller configs. Nothing is ever perfect I guess.

[Supmua]

F/A-18C / A-10C Grips

 

The easiest way to prevent hardware issue is to get a 2nd base. You might have seen posts regarding grip snapping off, bent pins, etc.—all kind of things that people do while exchanging grips. IMO, You pay a little more upfront but the devices should last longer in the end and it gets rid of the headache of having to deal with these issues.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Supmua

[Adrian858]

I tinkered around with it a bit tonight, making two separate profiles that I could switch between. It works, until it doesn't... :lol: This is why I usually don't create profiles for mapping in DCS, just bind what I need for each module, and backup the config folder. Half the time it was erasing bindings until I restarted the game, or it would load the profile buttons and overwrite the throttle... I think the easiest solution will be to use the Warthog Stick for the A-10 and F-16, and use the F/A-18 stick for everything else and just keep them separate.

 

Was on the hook about Target, but couldn't bring myself to using it, just feels like another added step and another program running in the background that I need to remember to turn on, but that's a personal preference, and sadly starting with Saitek/Madcatz years ago and using their "software" scarred me for life.

 

I have to admit though, I am really quite satisfied with this Thrustmaster product, pricey, but definitely worth it! Closely matches the AV-8B which I had a blast in tonight, and it actually works really well when I tried it in the Huey. Now where's that F-15E?

 

Thanks for the responses and input, Drakoz!

Edited August 11, 2019 by Adrian858

[Adrian858]

The easiest way to prevent hardware issue is to get a 2nd base. You might have seen posts regarding grip snapping off, bent pins, etc.—all kind of things that people do while exchanging grips. IMO, You pay a little more upfront but the devices should last longer in the end and it gets rid of the headache of having to deal with these issues.

 

Yeah, when I can get some money together (and perhaps get a bigger house), I think I want to try Virpil out. I hear outstanding things! Then I won't have to worry about it, already started thinking of the damage that could be done over time switching the grip back and forth on the TM base.

[Supmua]

The pins on the TM grip can get messed up easily if the orientation is off during grip exchange. I always have to take extra care when exchanging mine.

[Harlikwin]

The easiest way to prevent hardware issue is to get a 2nd base. You might have seen posts regarding grip snapping off, bent pins, etc.—all kind of things that people do while exchanging grips. IMO, You pay a little more upfront but the devices should last longer in the end and it gets rid of the headache of having to deal with these issues.

 

Yup i do exactly this. I now have 3 sticks and 2 throttles.

[=Panther=]

Just save the profile inside of DCS. Name it Hornet vs Hawg, and when you want to switch, just select the column under the Stick and select Load Profile.

[Adrian858]

Just save the profile inside of DCS. Name it Hornet vs Hawg, and when you want to switch, just select the column under the Stick and select Load Profile.

 

I started to work on doing that, but ran into a bit of an issue where I would switch from one profile to the next, and it would sometimes give some odd bugs, like loading the stick bindings into the throttle, or just removing all stick bindings, in these cases I had to restart the game (pain in the @$$ in VR). I've started to use the F/A-18 stick for pretty much all aircraft except the A-10. When the F-16 comes out, I should probably have a new base to slap the Warthog on to.