Status of the APKWS II (laser guided rocket)

[Fri13]

I have found mixed information about this rocket type to be, and closest seems to be that it is the task of the ED to make it, but can someone update the status of it?

[Harlikwin]

I'd be surprised if this made it into DCS. Its a really new weapons system and most of the planes modeled would predate it. Though maybe our franken harrier can have a new toy.

[Fri13]

It doesn't matter, as the APKWS II, Talon or the predecing Russian design Ugroza (S-5, S-8 and S-13) are all compatible without any modifications to all existing launchers.

 

What you only need is a laser designator with the laser code that you set for the rockets and you are good to go.

 

Then you just designate the target as normally and launch the rockets as typically and you have laser guided rocket flying toward your designated target.

 

It would be completely up to the mission designer to allow the new rockets to be available. As for Russian it would be 1999 or up to 2006, and for others 2012 or so.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E05Q_sXI1do

 

This would make many of the modules far more capable to operate in co-operation with others. Think example a KA-50 designating a target, when a L-39ZA or Su-25A will be launching rockets on the target.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Fri13

[Harlikwin]

I don't disagree, I just don't recall anyone ever saying we would get these.

 

And it wouldn't be realistic for most of the planes we do have circa late 90's or early 2000's for bluefor planes at least or the 90's era Ka50. I also don't see the various FC3 planes (SU-25 etc) having this added. But it would be cool to have.

[Captain Orso]

The APKWS II'es had first deployment in 2012. That's just 7 years ago. DCS does not deal with current weapons systems, bc they are nearly always still classified and there is no way to access the necessary information nor probable that the manufacturer/owner would agree to it in the first place.

[Floydii]

From what I've read, and based on the forward guidance fins (each of which houses a laser seeker) not deploying until after firing the APKWS doesn't talk back to the launch aircraft.

 

What this means is you could employ it on the harrier/hornet/A10C like a LGB:

 

- Either set rocket code on kneeboard before take-off or use the current harrier method where Laser weapons set to whatever code the LST is set to.

 

- lock target in TGP and designate or aquire and track someone else's laser spot with LST (The endstate is you have a cue on the HUD for a laser spot set to the same code as the APKWS).

 

-Select APKWS rockets, place rocket pipper over laser target on HUD and launch rocket at ~3nm.

 

- Rocket deploys, detects laser spot and flies to target.

 

The only issue I can think of is arcing rocket trajectory preventing early aquistion, but the rocket will get in the basket ballistically.

 

Without a manual, it's hard to confirm this is how it works exactly, but I'd be happy with the approximation.

[Fri13]

 

-Select APKWS rockets, place rocket pipper over laser target on HUD and launch rocket at ~3nm.

 

- Rocket deploys, detects laser spot and flies to target.

 

The only issue I can think of is arcing rocket trajectory preventing early aquistion, but the rocket will get in the basket ballistically.

 

Without a manual, it's hard to confirm this is how it works exactly, but I'd be happy with the approximation.

Yes. Based to manufacturers the system is completely same except new rocket head.

 

Laser head

ARM head

FLIR head

 

Are at least as options. Some requires a new software, so those can be left away.

And the laser heads are possibilities that just makes rocket guidance to laser spot.

 

Only difference is that launched rocket will just become far more accurate when laser spot is detected, and likely less accurate when not detected.

 

Pilot job is just like now, get the rocket fly toward wanted target but this time just with laser designator turned on.

[Fri13]

DCS does not deal with current weapons systems, bc they are nearly always still classified and there is no way to access the necessary information nor probable that the manufacturer/owner would agree to it in the first place.

 

So we can now remove AIM-120 family, R-27 family, Mk.82 bombs upgrade kits like all CBU, GBU etc.

As well we need to remove all the rockets etc.

We are left just with the AIM-4 Falcon, and likely not that even as it might have features that most missiles uses...

 

Same time we need to remove complete modules, F/A-18C hornet, cancel just released F-16CM BLK 50....

 

Sorry, but seriously a such rocket system that just adds the laser head and is new 3D model as well new logic to make rocket guided is not such thing that is too new.

 

After all the Russian version was demoed 1999, that is 20 years ago. And the Western version is similar, nothing to change in the rocket pod, launching aircraft etc. Only the rocket itself is changed by 3D model and logic to guide to laser spot. What comes to rocket flight modeling like its turning rates, those can very well be estimated very close to the ball park.

 

 

How much more data you need than what already their own public presentation tells?

 

- laser tracker capable spot designation further than rocket motor can fly it.

- very wide angle of view for laser spot seeker.

- the 3d model and animation

- accuracy informations for stationary as moving targets

- code input system

- seeker timing and guidance speed for range

- requirements for launching aircraft or pod (none).

[Silver_Dragon]

Has a point missing here, the actual aircrafts capables to carry the APKWS has blocks outsite the actual ED aircrafts and helos:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Precision_Kill_Weapon_System

Fixed and rotary aircrafts require hardware and software changes (what block, tape, Suite and versions?). A-10C only has APKWS capable on Suite 7.

 

A new digitalized launched was build to use the APKWS, IOC date?.

https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=80102

Edited October 7, 2019 by Silver_Dragon

[KTFBGB]

It doesn't matter, as the APKWS II, Talon or the predecing Russian design Ugroza (S-5, S-8 and S-13) are all compatible without any modifications to all existing launchers.

 

What you only need is a laser designator with the laser code that you set for the rockets and you are good to go.

 

Then you just designate the target as normally and launch the rockets as typically and you have laser guided rocket flying toward your designated target.

 

It would be completely up to the mission designer to allow the new rockets to be available. As for Russian it would be 1999 or up to 2006, and for others 2012 or so.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E05Q_sXI1do

 

This would make many of the modules far more capable to operate in co-operation with others. Think example a KA-50 designating a target, when a L-39ZA or Su-25A will be launching rockets on the target.

 

It does matter. We get weapons and software that were available during the documented dates. Just because the aircraft could use it at a later date makes no difference. If the model date of the Harrier is 1990 - 2000, then by default we will never get a weapon that was available to our Harrier in 2012. The weapon system is outside the date parameter of the sim.

 

Your other examples of weapons and aircraft make no logical sense. Why would aim 9 be out the window when the aircraft in question carried it during the time the sim is modeled. Just like our viper is a 2007 block 50, it will not get anything that may have became available in 2008.

 

ED is very clear on this. We get what was available at that time and nothing more. People are always arguing about wanting their favorite feature that although it was carried by the aircraft, was at a date outside the sim parameter. The answer is always the same. NO.