Mirage Vs Viper

[Shein]

So just to be clear: I’m not trying to start arguments here. I don’t have a dog in this race; I love all fighter jets equally.

 

That being said, the mirage has dominated the WVR dogfight arena since its release. Granted it is the only delta we have at the moment and deltas are supposed to be good at slow speed handling, but the viper is also supposed to be insanely good at low speed.

 

So with all that, I was really curious to see if the viper would dethrone the mirage when it released. I was genuinely curious if the mirage flight model is perhaps a little too beefy, or if it really is that good. Today my friend and I did a lot of testing to see how the two stacked up, and the mirage still was king by a wide margin. Turn fight, energy fight, no matter who was at the controls, mirage won. Granted I know viper is still very much WIP and the flight model certainly will change, but speculate away! What do you guys think??

[Hummingbird]

According to the official real life EM charts the Viper should generally have the advantage, but as you mentioned the opposite is very much the case in DCS atm. But I'm expecting this to change with further patches.

 

One thing I also noticed test flying the DCS F-16 is that it starts slowing down the onset of G's (pitch rate) quite early on during any attempt at a quick max rate instantanous turn, seemingly being extremely preemptive in its guarding against overshooting the 9 G limit. It seems quite excessive to me how early it has to brake/slow down the onset of G's based on what I've seen the real aircraft pull off, and esp. when compared with the Mirage ingame which doesn't slow the onset of G's until around 8 G's it seems - i.e. it acclerates lightning fast to 8 G's upon full stick deflection and then slows down the onset from then until the max of 9 G is reached, which works just fine with no risk of overshooting the limit - hence I can't understand why the F-16's FCS is so much more aggressively preemptive in slowing down pitch rate so much earlier. But again, I understand it's EA and many things will change, this small quirk was just a very noticable thing to me.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Hummingbird

[Shein]

Yeah I'm sure there are many FBW tweaks to come. I can't wait.

[nighthawk2174]

As with all DCS modules I'd say wait a minimum of 6ish months (especially ED modules) to see how the FM develops. just my 2 cents.

[Jester2138]

the mirage has dominated the WVR dogfight arena since its release.

 

I don't know about that... Unless I'm mistaken, Tomcats just won first and second place in the Folds of Honor competition.

[Deano87]

So just to be clear: I’m not trying to start arguments here. I don’t have a dog in this race; I love all fighter jets equally.

 

That being said, the mirage has dominated the WVR dogfight arena since its release. Granted it is the only delta we have at the moment and deltas are supposed to be good at slow speed handling, but the viper is also supposed to be insanely good at low speed.

 

So with all that, I was really curious to see if the viper would dethrone the mirage when it released. I was genuinely curious if the mirage flight model is perhaps a little too beefy, or if it really is that good. Today my friend and I did a lot of testing to see how the two stacked up, and the mirage still was king by a wide margin. Turn fight, energy fight, no matter who was at the controls, mirage won. Granted I know viper is still very much WIP and the flight model certainly will change, but speculate away! What do you guys think??

 

I don’t know where you get that the Viper is good at slow speed, this is the Hornets ballpark, not the F-16. The F-16s turnrate falls off a cliff as it gets slow because it has a very limited AoA range compared to the Hornet or Mirage. Once it hits Max AoA the G just starts decreasing and the turn rate goes down. To fly the F-16 you need to keep it up over 350 knots and use the 9G capability. Letting it get slow is the wrong move. Also use the thrust and go vertical.

[M1Combat]

"I don’t know where you get that the Viper is good at slow speed, this is the Hornets ballpark, not the F-16."

 

QFT

[gitbse]

Other forums have noted that fuel burn is only about 25% of what it should be. Theres a missing ~50,000 pph fuel flow, so right now it's barely getting out of mil power.