[W.I.P]All active missiles have broken wrong mid-course guidance

[BlackPixxel]

Hello!

 

When firing an ARH missile beyond its seeker range it has to be guided via mid-course updates from the shooter. He has to keep the target locked until the missile is in range to go active.

 

In DCS this mechanic is completely broken for all ARH/Fox3 missiles:

 

You can have the target locked, fire an ARH missile and then just turn of your radar and leave the target. The missile will still constantly guide towards the target even far beyond the range where its active seeker would take over. The mid-course updates from the shooter are not modelled at all. The shooter's support is not required after launch for updates. The missile knows where the target is even without the shooter supporting it.

 

This is a major bug, as it allows the ARH shooter to disengage much earlier and turn away, while his missile will still perfectly guide towards the target.

The correct behaviour would be: The ARH missile should, when the shooter unlocks the target, fly towards the last known intercept point. There is still a chance of finding the target when the target did not maneuver much and is within the seeker FOV as the missile goes active.

 

The attached trackfiles show the issue. I fire ARH missiles beyond their seeker range at a maneuvering target and immediatly turn off my radar. The missiles still constantly pull g and follows the target before it even goes active. They magically track the target beyond their seeker range.

 

I hope this can get fixed quickly, as it is 100% unrealistic and affects air to air combat significantly.

 

 

Also, any update about this issue: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=253434 ?

It is not acceptable that Fox 1 when losing radar lock briefly are 100% trashed if there is a chaff in the air without a chance of reacquiring the target, but Fox 3 will guide towards the target even with no radar support at all at long range.

ARH INS BUG.zip

[Wicked.-]

Im seeing exactly the opposite firing 120’s in the Viper. Regardless of whether I’m in STT, TWS or DGFT, when the missile is halfway to the target it will not only stop tracking, it makes a right angle turn away from the target. Basically it’s happening when it should go pit bull.

[Chizh]

You can have the target locked, fire an ARH missile and then just turn of your radar and leave the target. The missile will still constantly guide towards the target even far beyond the range where its active seeker would take over.

We are working on this issue. Fix will be in the January.

[Teknetinium]

We are working on this issue. Fix will be in the January.

 

Thank You!

[Krippz]

Good to see this getting addressed.

[DackSter94]

Tomcat kill ratio drops by 85%...

[BlackPixxel]

Looks like it is not a true tracking, the missile just follows changes in the targets flight path.

 

So if the target starts to turn left, the missile will also turn left. But it will not go for the actual target object, it will just go left as long as the target is still turning.

 

It also affects Fox1, not just Fox3.

 

Still, this is not a realistic behaviour. When the target is unocked, the missile should not follow any target movement unless it is already using its own seeker.

Edited January 31, 2020 by BlackPixxel

[Stubbies2003]

Im seeing exactly the opposite firing 120’s in the Viper. Regardless of whether I’m in STT, TWS or DGFT, when the missile is halfway to the target it will not only stop tracking, it makes a right angle turn away from the target. Basically it’s happening when it should go pit bull.

 

 

I don't ever see a right hand turn but I've seen an annoying number of 120s that even when shot from short ranges never even bother to try and track. They go stupid off the rail and fly straight and never turn. I fly the 18 almost exclusively at this point and just keep it simple and do RWS/STT. Fairly annoying if you are in an A-G load out and you only have 2 missiles and one is worthless.

[silentbob11]

My ratio is 1 out of 2 missiles miss in most cases when in TWS. STT/RWS and boresight usually hit the spot but even than it's a drag having to keep a lock on a single tgt until it goes active while all the RWR is screaming at you...:smilewink:

 

SB11

[BlackPixxel]

Be glad that it works so well with the Amraam.

 

With the R-27ER 5 out of 6 missiles miss in most cases, and you have to keep the lock on the target until the missile hits while the RWR is screaming...

[nighthawk2174]

Yeah well it is a SARH missile so the amraam even if it is incredible buggy and slower than it should be, right now still has that decisive advantage.

[hein22]

We are working on this issue. Fix will be in the January.

 

Hello sir, Has this been fixed already? I would say yes given that we are on april but I wanted to double check. Thanks.

[hein22]

Ok, I did some tests and it seems fixed. At least in terms of the magical guidance. Although the hornet can't guide an Amraam in TWS now, so I'm not sure if it is related. Anyone has tried this as well?

[BlackPixxel]

Midcourse guidance seems to be even more broken than before. When F-18's fire Aim-120 at a maneuvering target, the missile flies fine for the shooter. But for the target it flies along the F-18 boresight for a few kilometers only to then snap towards the target. This again creates different flight paths for shooter and target, where the flight path that the target sees is less efficient and causes the Aim-120 to appear further away and slower than it actually is.

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

Im sorry but how is this an issue (as of 4/9/2020)?

 

I have recorded two tracks that show me firing an AMRAAM under two different scenarios. In both, I drop lock soon after launch. The missiles fly as straight as an arrow and do not go after the target at all.

 

With that being said, if you are within the seekers scan zone when it goes active then yes, of course it will go after you! Perhaps the real issue (if any,) is the size of said scan zone.

Aim-120 No Follow 1.trk

Aim-120 No Follow 2.trk

[hein22]

Im sorry but how is this an issue (as of 4/9/2020)?

 

I have recorded two tracks that show me firing an AMRAAM under two different scenarios. In both, I drop lock soon after launch. The missiles fly as straight as an arrow and do not go after the target at all.

 

With that being said, if you are within the seekers scan zone when it goes active then yes, of course it will go after you! Perhaps the real issue (if any,) is the size of said scan zone.

 

It isn't. I posted above saying that after some tests I found this was already fixed.

[BlackPixxel]

The INS is not fully fixed yet.

 

On the shooters side all looks fine, but the target in multiplayer sees something different. The initial path of the missile is wrong, which matters especially for off boresight shots. For unsupported missiles this again causes a big descrepancy in missile path for shooter and target resulting in the target getting splashed by a missile that is still multiple kilometers away.

 

Example:

 

Here is what the shooter sees. Look at the second missile that is fired:

https://i.gyazo.com/fd046375b87bd9b3987165fbaa3947ba.mp4

 

And here is what everyone else sees for that second missile:

 

 

As you can see, for the shooter the missile is going into some kind of pure pursuit. But for the target, the missile stays on the launchers boresight after it comes of the rail. The missile is not supported, as the shooter switches to a different target.

 

The result is that the missile for the shooter is closer to the target and with a better angle to the target when it goes active (thanks to ED magic it instantly finds exactly the target it was asigned to at 15km). It reaches the target earlier and with a higher energy state than the missile that the target sees on its side. The missile kills the target when it is still more than 2.5 km away on his client.

Edited April 9, 2020 by BlackPixxel

[hein22]

The INS is not fully fixed yet.

 

On the shooters side all looks fine, but the target in multiplayer sees something different. The initial path of the missile is wrong, which matters especially for off boresight shots. For unsupported missiles this again causes a big descrepancy in missile path for shooter and target resulting in the target getting splashed by a missile that is still multiple kilometers away.

 

Example:

 

Here is what the shooter sees. Look at the second missile that is fired:

https://i.gyazo.com/fd046375b87bd9b3987165fbaa3947ba.mp4

 

And here is what everyone else sees for that second missile:

 

 

As you can see, for the shooter the missile is going into some kind of pure pursuit. But for the target, the missile stays on the launchers boresight after it comes of the rail. The missile is not supported, as the shooter switches to a different target.

 

The result is that the missile for the shooter is closer to the target and with a better angle to the target when it goes active (thanks to ED magic it instantly finds exactly the target it was asigned to at 15km). It reaches the target earlier and with a higher energy state than the missile that the target sees on its side. The missile kills the target when it is still more than 2.5 km away on his client.

 

Seems like a MP problem. Not for this thread. I don't think I catched what you mean with shooter and target. The world is one, there is no world for the target and a different one for the shotter.

[BlackPixxel]

Shooter and target see different flight paths for missiles due to various synchronisation issues.

 

This is still an issue for this thread, because unsupported INS phase is still not working properly when the target is flanking or when the shooter fires off boresight.

[hein22]

Shooter and target see different flight paths for missiles due to various synchronisation issues.

 

This is still an issue for this thread, because unsupported INS phase is still not working properly when the target is flanking or when the shooter fires off boresight.

 

I disagree. This thread reported magic datalink guidance for ARH. That is fixed.