Tiger-II Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 Hi, In FWD+BCK mode, is output power to a hemisphere reduced or not? Is it just an EMCON thing? Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port "When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover. The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts. "An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."
foxwxl Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 For many reasons, ECM hasn't been modelled that complicate in DCS. :megalol: Just think it straight, noise jamming like FC3 or any other A/C. (Aim jamming can be applied in SP, according to the DEV team) Deka Ironwork Tester Team
witness_me Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 it works vs. AI units (e.g. SAMs etc), hemisphere coverage doesn't seem to be modelled as foxwxl mentions. Some people seem to think it works against FC3 aircrafts you can see how it works by checking your RWS vs AI SAM units (e.g. sa10's) - it makes quite a difference
foxwxl Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 it works vs. AI units (e.g. SAMs etc), hemisphere coverage doesn't seem to be modelled as foxwxl mentions. Some people seem to think it works against FC3 aircrafts you can see how it works by checking your RWS vs AI SAM units (e.g. sa10's) - it makes quite a difference F18 F16 F14 haven't model the radar jamming ATM, they will just ignore your ECM status and get your true data. So ECM jamming basically works on FC3 & SAM.:joystick: Deka Ironwork Tester Team
Jonne Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 F18 F16 F14 haven't model the radar jamming ATM, they will just ignore your ECM status and get your true data. So ECM jamming basically works on FC3 & SAM.:joystick: And the MiG-21 and the MiG-19 and the Mirage, so basically all older modules, with radar. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
foxwxl Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 So SPJ is useless? SPJ is quite useful in SEAD/DEAD mission. Deka Ironwork Tester Team
AeriaGloria Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 So SPJ is useless? Watch the video by Deka, it’s also an ESM suite Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com
Tiger-II Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 F18 F16 F14 haven't model the radar jamming ATM, they will just ignore your ECM status and get your true data. So ECM jamming basically works on FC3 & SAM.:joystick: WHAT?! Why? Does each module need to support jamming modes? Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port "When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover. The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts. "An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."
witness_me Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 someone mentioned in the discord that ED used to support it for FC3, but it's not yet supported for the new radar API the high fidelity models are using, it was mentioned that proper support is on the roadmap once the high fidelity models get their jamming pods (talking about the ED high fidelity models here - once the f16 or f18 get their jamming pod then jamming will be revisited) obviously this is all discord talk and you won't know till you ask bignewy etc :)
AeriaGloria Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 I always though it came down to how each radar system displays jamming. Like in JF-17 we have the contacts jumping up and down when being jammed Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com
witness_me Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 I always though it came down to how each radar system displays jamming. Like in JF-17 we have the contacts jumping up and down when being jammed i think that was the deka team going above and beyond rather than waiting for the api updates etc but it's all hearsay afaik
Tiger-II Posted January 4, 2020 Author Posted January 4, 2020 i think that was the deka team going above and beyond rather than waiting for the api updates etc but it's all hearsay afaik Deka rock! How jamming targets actually present is classified. This was discussed years ago over at the BMS forums and elsewhere. The jumping is a sim interpretation (inability to range due to jamming screwing things up, but seeing it because of the jamming). Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port "When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover. The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts. "An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."
foxwxl Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 WHAT?! Why? Does each module need to support jamming modes? Each aircraft will tell others what its sensor is doing, and it is depend on every module to determine what & how to show(or not show) to the players. Deka Ironwork Tester Team
Lymark Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 So SPJ is useless? Not really, as it also provides accurate range information of RWR sources. It's pretty much a must have pod to carry for air to air loadout.
Jonne Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) Each aircraft will tell others what its sensor is doing, and it is depend on every module to determine what & how to show(or not show) to the players. It is way easier in DCS than that. As per a 3rd party developer, which unfortunately I cannot find any more, every aircraft has a jamming flag which is either on or off, nothing in between. That means every jammer has the same strength and every jammer is noise jamming only, without any directional limitations. Now it is up to the module itself, how it deals with a jamming aircraft. As noise jamming basically floods the range information with an own generated signal, result should be range information lost. In the MiG-21 and some other modules, this is represented by multiple contacts in a straight line from the target. This is also verified by the real MiG-21 manual. In that aircraft, you can engage a jamming filter, which will reduce the radar picture to one contact again, but displayed in the middle of the radar screen, hence still no range information. In the JF-17, it seems the lost range indication is displayed by a jumping target, which also seems a plausible reaction. In all teen series modules, except the F-15, this effect is not modeled, hence they have a huge advantage, as they still will see the correct range. To be honest, this is a total laziness and should not make it through QA, but that is not my decision. All in all DCS is very restricted when it comes to jamming. Other jamming modes are already 50 years old and older and by now disclosed. See THIS post by Hiromachi about the SPS-141 pod of the MiG-21. Edited January 5, 2020 by Jonne [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Tiger-II Posted January 5, 2020 Author Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) I find it hilarious, when such glaring issues such as this exist in other modules, that people claim the JF-17 to be "over-powered", and the SD-10 to be "too good". Yet here we are... these same people fly these other jets with these cheat capabilities, and not a word about it. As for why jamming is so simply modeled, it's like IFF: classified. Both how the jammer works, and consequently the effect on the RADAR from jamming. ED therefore have just made it "jamming or not", however that doesn't explain why their RADARs do not show jamming targets. It raises another question: even if the launch platform can see everything, are the missiles affected by it, or do they act like the target is not jamming because the RADAR has ignored it? Do the missiles in DCS have Home-on-Jam capability? Edited January 5, 2020 by Tiger-II Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port "When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover. The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts. "An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."
Jonne Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 It raises another question: even if the launch platform can see everything, are the missiles affected by it, or do they act like the target is not jamming because the RADAR has ignored it? Missiles do not seem to react on jamming. The only thing you may achieve against those modules is braking the lock eventually when switching the jammer on or off. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
foxwxl Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 DCS missiles(not too old ones) Do have HOJ capabilities, but only when you fire on a target with AOJ mode.(not just maddog at a general direction) ARH with HOJ will burn through ECM target at half distance(4nm), and only trigger RWR at that point, make it more deadly. Deka Ironwork Tester Team
witness_me Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 the sd-10 has a home on jam mode as well, not available right now b/c of early access i think
Jonne Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 DCS missiles(not too old ones) Do have HOJ capabilities, but only when you fire on a target with AOJ mode.(not just maddog at a general direction) ARH with HOJ will burn through ECM target at half distance(4nm), and only trigger RWR at that point, make it more deadly. What missiles are those? Can only think of the AIM-120 currently. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
foxwxl Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 What missiles are those? Can only think of the AIM-120 currently. Phoenix,120s, R77, R27ER, AIM7M Deka Ironwork Tester Team
L0op8ack Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) the sd-10 has a home on jam mode as well, not available right now b/c of early access i think Yes, SD-10 can do HOJ since day 1. try loft SD-10 to a jamming target(no burn through), you will see it wont loft, but HOJ. NOTE: AI can do flash jamming, test against human players please. Edited January 6, 2020 by L0op8ack
witness_me Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) Hey L0op8ack - thanks for letting us know :thumbup: Edited January 6, 2020 by witness_me
Tiger-II Posted January 6, 2020 Author Posted January 6, 2020 Yes, SD-10 can do HOJ since day 1. try loft SD-10 to a jamming target(no burn through), you will see it wont loft, but HOJ. NOTE: AI can do flash jamming, test against human players please. Thank you! Motorola 68000 | 1 Mb | Debug port "When performing a forced landing, fly the aircraft as far into the crash as possible." - Bob Hoover. The JF-17 is not better than the F-16; it's different. It's how you fly that counts. "An average aircraft with a skilled pilot, will out-perform the superior aircraft with an average pilot."
Recommended Posts