Uuuuaaaah..! I have started building now..!

[crazysundog]

Congratulations on 100 pages Trigger!!

 

Eagerly waiting for pictures of your force trim mechanisms!

[Triggerhappy69]

Mechanical Trim Force assembly - Coming along..

 

Congratulations on 100 pages Trigger!!

 

Eagerly waiting for pictures of your force trim mechanisms!

 

And here they are..!

 

Remember the industrial joystick I got from my friend (thanx Morten)? I stripped it down to the essential gimbal mechanism.

The reason for this dramatic change from my FFB Cyclic was the hours in the Super-Puma and Sikorsky Sea-King simulators I was lucky enough to get.

 

The first and quite obvious difference between my cyclic and the RL ones were two things:

1. The Force trim was more "defined" and tight arround the center. Meaning that there was no dead zone that I could notice... at all!

And after some negotiating with the guys who worked there, I was (reluctantly from theyr side) allowed to crawl under the belly of the simulator to have a look-see. And there, much to my surprise, I found a bunch of massive solid-metal pushrods and bellcranks. There was no counter wheight to balance off the top-heavy cyclic stick? And no DC motors that act as FFB actuators? And when I trimmed the helicopter there was a clear and distinct "Click" sound followed by what I can only describe as a small "shivering feeling" in the cyclic stick!

Both things are tell-tale signs of an elektro-mechanical direct input system..

 

2. When I moved the Cyclic arround it felt like it had more mass..! The cyclic Stick was in no way hard to move arround. But the higher total mass of the system gave me a feeling of actually flying a many tons heavvy machine, and not a hollow plastic broomstick handle.

It just made all movement off the Cyclic Stick more controlled and fluid.? Both of which who are good things for a helicopter pilot..!

 

The main motivation for me rebuilding the HOCAS was the un presise return force, and the general feel when operating the cross-hear pipper to designate targets..

 

With the added total mass of the assembly, and after having filled the cyclic stick handle with epoxy-metal resin, I can safely say that it feels a lot more like the RL Cyclic now.!

 

 

 

The all metal gimbal has been outfitted with ball-joints for the X and Y axis.

The X axis is connected to force gradient unit to provide a strong, quick and defined return force in any position.

The Y axis on the other hand work in a perpendicular dirrection to the X axis. And since I have a limited space in this direction, I chose to turn it's working vector with the help of a bellcrank. So now both X and Y axis working vector are parallel, and running lenghtwise toward the pedal assembly in the cockpit.

 

 

 

 

 

The obviously over sized 90 degree angle bracket was chosen after a comment from one of you guys about being carefull to not make the mechanics to "flimsy".! At least this will not be the weakest point now, and all the other potential weak-spots run parallel? So correcting them, or balancing them out, should be easyer (I hope)?

 

 

 

 

 

I will manufacture some kind of attaching "thingie" that will hold the thick-walled 20mm aluminum pipe firmly in place on the 10mm stick on top of the gimbal! Good for when I thrash the Cyclic Stick arround in despair while AAA and Stingers whistle around my ears.!?

Edited April 1, 2010 by Triggerhappy69

[Triggerhappy69]

Mechanical trim Force - Force Gradient Unit

 

You remember this right?

 

It's such an important part of the Force trim assembly, and yet so brilliantly simple in design.

It's only function is to provide a spring loaded return-to-center force, while at the same time retain linear rigidity for the axis.

In short it's a pushrod that has a spring mounted inside it!

 

Without this function the Force trim would not work at all!

 

Why you ask?

 

..... well ask then....

 

Well it's like this! Real life Force Trim assemblies are much more simple than the FFB substitute we use to simulate it. Basicly it is made up from this part (the Force Gradient Assembly), and a magnetic brake device mounted firmly to the helicopters frame after this...

The Force Gradient Assembly (FGA) is not connected to any of the flying surfaces directly, but works in parallel with the pushrod that run from the cyclic to the swashplate.

 

So try to imagine it like this:

- The Magnetic Brake Device (MBD) is not activated, and you are moving the pushing the cyclic away from you...

The pushrod runing from the cyclic moves the swashplate down in front (or down on the right side, depending on the rotor head geometrics). The FGA's springloading will move in conjuction with the pushrod, without compressing the spring at all. Simply because the MBD is'nt activated.. This is the Force trim system when you press the trim button and move the cyclic stick!

 

- Then you let go of the trim button, and the MBD locks up! And all of a sudden the FGA is locked into position in both ends! Now the only thing that can prevent the cyclic stick from being impossible to move is the springloading inside the FGA. And this spring loading provides us with the return force for the axis..

 

... untill you press the trim button to release the preasure on the spring, and let it settle in a new "neutral" possition again..

 

It's so simple, force-adjustable and precise I just love it! And it takes away the need for counter-balancing a top heavy cyclic stick all together..!

 

Well here is my version of the same unit..

 

 

The bushings (black round dooda's at the ends of the threaded rod) I just found in a drawer at home.. They matched the inside diameter of the pipe good enough to run free inside, but I have absolutly no clue what they originaly was made for?

 

 

 

The "rings" are slices cut from a pipe who's outside diameter mached the inside diameter of the main tube. Theyr only function is to prevent the bushings from exiting the main tube, and instead forcing the spring to be compressed. Giving the return force to the cyclic stick.

 

 

 

 

Here you can clearly see that the nut that set the spring's end-point can be pulled out from the main tube. Leaving you with no other alternative but compressing the spring inside.

Another brilliant thing with this setup is that weather you push or pull on the FGA it only compress the spring! Only difference is that it compresses it from opposite sides!? This completly rules out the need for balancing out two springs with a "piston" forcing only one spring to be compressed depending on weather you push or pull..?

 

 

.... after reading through the text I have concluded (much to my despair) that I really REALLY should just go to bed..!?

Edited April 1, 2010 by Triggerhappy69
Adding a lot off Bla-Bla-Bla..

[Scudslaker]

really interesting thread, congrats for 101 pages craziest DIY Simpit action..

and thank you for your verry special documentation on this forum,..

:book:

 

:smartass:

 

:thumbup:

 

looking forward, to read your text update asap!)

 

cheers

Scud

[Swetrekki]

Holy gimbal batman!

that is one sturdy looking set you got there!

 

// trekki

[talisman]

At this rate you will need a pilots licence to fly the bloody thing. Getting crazy now :)

[Triggerhappy69]

ONEHUNDRED PAGES..!? .... food for thought..

 

Congratulations on 100 pages Trigger!!

 

Eagerly waiting for pictures of your force trim mechanisms!

 

WoW..!:smilewink:

I really hadn't noticed this before now.? (..and yes..! At times it quite obvious, even to me, that I'm a bit over average slooow.. hehe)

 

Thank god (or whatever you choose to call him) that all these pages can't be credited to me alone.. Because I honestly can't see myself having one hundred pages worth of interesting things to say..?

 

I'd like to take this moment to extend my gratitude to all you guys who have helped me stumble my way to where my pit is today.. And I'm not just saying that to be polite..! When I started this project ages ago, I knew just two things for sure.. I had no 'friggin clue what I was doing, or even how/when I would reach my goal..? I had a head full of more or less usefull ideas and dreams, an over-active quriosity and a hobby room full of junk!

And now, 100 pages later I have.... Well, let's not dwell on this in particular.. LOL

 

I blame it on the pitbuilders in Viperpits.org..! I took one look on the F-16 pits they where building, and thought "That looks really REALLY difficult to do.. I just HAVE TO learn how to do it..!"

 

..looking back It's quite clear that although the great volume of ideas and suggestions can be credited to yours truly. The ideas that actually work come from you guys!

 

But being of the positive kind I proudly take sole credit for approximatly 80 pages of crappy ideas...

As far as the remaining pages go, I thank all you guys for them..!:thumbup:

[Triggerhappy69]

really interesting thread, congrats for 101 pages craziest DIY Simpit action..

and thank you for your verry special documentation on this forum,..

:book:

 

:smartass:

 

:thumbup:

 

looking forward, to read your text update asap!)

 

cheers

Scud

 

Thanx mate!:)

I promise you to continue coming up with outragous ideas. As long as you promise to let me know when they suck..!:thumbup:

 

Holy gimbal batman!

that is one sturdy looking set you got there!

 

// trekki

 

I know..! I might have gone just a wee bit overboard with this latest setup! But anything worth doing, is worth doing right... right?

(or was it ", is worth doing twise..?")

 

At this rate you will need a pilots licence to fly the bloody thing. Getting crazy now :)

 

Already working on my pilots licence mate..! I'll probably be flying by late summer this year.. :pilotfly:

[Scudslaker]

congrats for your ppl plans.. as already told, it is a passion. A pleasure to see, how to get infected to this freakness.. and Trigger, i think there is no hope for you, you are completely infected to this stuff all around flying in virtual and real skies.

 

and you are right, it doesn t depends on where you are, it depends on what you re doing.. and you ve already done a few..i will try to share my pibuilding steps in your way!)

 

i m off to get a shower

[Triggerhappy69]

Pitbuilding Update 1. april 2010 - New front pedestal

 

..i will try to share my pibuilding steps in your way!)

 

I'm looking forwards to that mate..!

 

I started assembly of the new front pedestal today:

 

I made these fasteners from 6mm plywood. And to be honest I'm pretty darned proud of this little idea! Because it will give me fastening points wherever I want along the frames. AND make the Pit possible to take apart for maintenance and/or upgrading..

 

 

See...? Sweet little thing..

 

 

This is just the rear part of the Front Pedestal (where the Cycllic stick is). The "empty" zone to the left will hold the Pedals. And the Trim Force mechanics will be situated in center.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had a bunch of these aluminum angles. And the work just perfect as corners..! All the fastening screws will be replased by 4mm countersunk head machine bolts with press-fitted nuts in the fastening plates.

 

 

Finally it's home..! Tomorrow I'll be able to see if my Trim Force mechanics is a winner, or a total failure..!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And naturally I made a new extention for my cyclic stick to..! I am not looking forwards to re-wiring the stick though..!

Edited April 1, 2010 by Triggerhappy69

[Triggerhappy69]

Force Feedback Amplifier Ver.20

 

Just finished this today..!

 

Thought I'd post pics just to tease..

[CyBerkut]

Looks nice and clean! Hopefully you kept the traces spaced far enough apart... :P

 

Trigger, you continue to impress! I'm looking forward to more about that mechanical trim, when you get around to it. Good luck with the pilot's license!!! :pilotfly:

[Triggerhappy69]

Looks nice and clean! Hopefully you kept the traces spaced far enough apart... :P

 

Trigger, you continue to impress! I'm looking forward to more about that mechanical trim, when you get around to it. Good luck with the pilot's license!!! :pilotfly:

 

Thanx mate.:)

 

I really hope the traces are far enough apart to..!

I'm holding of on finishing this part untill I've done the Force Trim mechanics.

Partly because I'm not good at focusing on the job at hand when i've got to many projects running at once. But also because I have a sneeking suspition that they maybe should have been further apart..! :cry:

 

Tonight I hope to get some more work done on the "desktop Force Trim Joystick"..? I've got really high hopes on this to be honest..!

[Scudslaker]

great pcb quality, looking good. i hope it s damn working like hell.. just had some experiments with industrial joystick solutions years ago,..but as told i m collecting all the good inspirations and needed materials and i really hope that we receive the key for the new flat in 2-3 days!)

 

one question on your actual project!) i had a look for those magnetic brakes you ve shown on the last page,..do you have a part number or something like this..i d like to optimize my collective replic with that solution.

 

have luck in your night workshop!)

 

Scud

[loubial]

You are one of my guru concerning simulation…

 

What do you think of this project…?

I already carried out the collective according to the same principle (thank you Oakes (another guru) spiritual father for the model)

 

More informations in this post

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=878433#post878433

Edited April 21, 2010 by loubial
Add-on

[Triggerhappy69]

You are one of my guru concerning simulation…

 

What do you think of this project…?

I already carried out the collective according to the same principle (thank you Oakes (another guru) spiritual father for the model)

 

More informations in this post

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=878433#post878433

 

 

Dude..! That is just a thing of beauty you've made there..! Seriously, my jaw dropped when I saw the pics!:thumbup:

I whish I had acsess to a machining center now after seing your cyclic mechanics..!

 

Here's a small update of what I am working on:

 

The general layout of the three return spring cylynders (for nick, roll and yaw axis). And one of the brake calipers that will hold it in place when trim is not activated.

 

 

New Front pedestal

 

 

..nothing much to say about this picture.. exept it's the wrong may for some reason..?:music_whistling:

 

 

Force trim brake caliper

 

 

the same force trim brake caliper, only this time "naked"..

 

 

The bellcrank that turn the roll-axis paralell to the nick-axis under the cyclic mechanics.

 

 

.. and another picture of the roll- a.. bladibladiblah.. (I've got to come up with shorter describtions for these damn things..:doh:)

[Triggerhappy69]

Spring Cleaning anyone?

 

Well, There is no denying it anymore..! I need to do some spring cleaning (clearing)..!

 

Hobby room with soldering bench.. Spot the bench if you can..! LoL!!

And the reast are basicly parts for the pit un assembled.. (looking away so you can't see me crying..)

 

 

.. Parts , parts and more parts (and some old junk of a cnc mill)

 

 

 

Building a new enclosure to hold all the elecronics and powersupply and pendant for my new CnC Router.

 

 

.. and as if I didn't have enough to do with my spare time, I decided (in a moment of general stupification if you ask me now!) to build a cabinet for a Mini-ITX pc mainboard to have in my livingroom.. I could have bought one for next to nothing. But noooooo.,.. Not me..! I had to go build one and spend a weekend routing V-grooves and bending plexiglass with a heatgun like the MORON I AM..! :smartass:

 

Bit it will come out nice once I finish it I guess..!

[C6_Hellfrog]

you man are got damn crazy ! :pilotfly:

on your planet a day past in 48 hours isn't ? :smilewink:

and where did you found the wife who support a man like you ? I guess... there could have a real great market for some clones of her :D;)

mine would kill me if I did the half of you !

 

nevermind...

 

bravo to all your efforts and moreover for the great thread and picts ! and more for the concept of your trim... I am impatient to see it working ! and hope it will !

[loubial]

In fact, I have a secret ... I'm an expert to use ideas from my colleagues :book:... you personally and you do not miss. Your achievements are brilliant ingenuity

[CAT_101st]

do you still have room for the pit?

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

do you still have room for the pit?

 

LOL Seriously thinking the same thing. Haven't you ever seen the movie Maximum Overdrive? You're screwed.......:lol:

[Triggerhappy69]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

New Force Trim Mechanics with MC calipers to hold the plates connected to the Centering springs in place.

 

I've ordered three 24V solenoids to activate the Calipers. And filled the Cyclic handle with "Steel plastic" two-component resin to make it act and feel more sturdy.!

 

and the rest.... I'll tell you tomorrow.. I'm just to tired now..

 

Cya guys...! c",)

[C6_Hellfrog]

Hey very nice job.

 

I begin to understand much more with your duty being assembled

 

Keep the good work !!

[Kuky]

Man you are good... but also nuts :D

[Triggerhappy69]

Pitbuilding update 24. may 2010 - Force Trim Center console coming together.

 

Hey very nice job.

 

I begin to understand much more with your duty being assembled

 

Keep the good work !!

 

Thank you both. I know it must have been close to impossible to imagine what my plan was based on the previous pics. But I hope it's a little clearer now?

 

As I mentioned earlyer there was a couple of things that really bugged me with the original FFB setup. Not at first naturally, but after spending some time in a RL simulator it was just.. WRONG..!?

 

The feeling of actually moving a heavyer mass around with the cyclic stick made the experience more ... well, how should I put it... calm..!?

 

If you look at the picture underneath you'll see that the number of bellcrancs ans pushrods for one axis alone are high. And there is quite a lot of mass to move arround. Now multiply this mass and number of belcrancs by two.. you get the picture..?

 

A heavyer mass to move arround makes your cyclic movement more smooth and you loose much of the small "wrist turbulence" that a standars joystick alows for, or at least I do it seems.

This became clear for me when I had the FFB setup, and added a heavy counter balance weight underneath.

 

So I thought that since building all the pushrods and bellcranks was not really an option for me. I needed to make a mechanic where I could control, add and/or remove mass and friction after my own will.

 

The whole thing should look something like this..

 

The trim disc rotates arround 8mm ballbearings inbedded in bearing block made from 10mm acrylic.

The axle held in place with lock-nuts and washers on each side of the center pedestal sides. Adding both rigidity to the pedestal, and making sure there is little play in the system.

 

 

The caliper lock the trim disc in its position with the help of a spring pulling on the caliper arm (not in picture.. I just couldn't bring myself to draw it).

 

When trim button is pressed the solenoid (also not in picture) pull on the caliper arm, and release the brakepads. This allow the spring to returm to center.

 

As in this picture..

Now I release the trim button. The solenoid disingages, and the brakepads lock the cyclic in a new center posistion.

 

Really quite simple when you see it like this.

 

Man you are good... but also nuts :D

 

 

Hehe. That's got to be one of the coolest compliments I've heard..! Thanx mate! :thumbup: