Reasoning for the Ka-50 cannon mounting.

[kapuhy]

Nobody deny that second crew member is useful-but man can't judge two machines only by number of heads inside- I think that's the point of Frost1e's F-16 example.

 

And Apache fans can by touchy, indeed ;)

[Flyby]

In the BS sim, I doubt there will be a FAC to hand off targets. I don't think we'll be able to hand targets off to one another either. That's where it may get interesting. A single-seat gunship flying pretty much autonomously insofar as weapons deployment goes, unless there is a flight leader giving direction. But if he's in a BS too then he can't do a lot of coordination of forces once the fight is on unless he reamins at standoff distances. That's not good for gameplay, imho. Then I suppose it's every pilot for him(her)self. I think the Black Shark sim is going to be a real challenge with it's advanced FM, and pilot workload.

Flyby

PS any ED testors, can you speak to the BS pilot workload in an engagement area?

[GGTharos]

Yes, there is a datalink, and you -can- hand targets off, and I can promise you some will make missions where not using the capability to scout and hand off targets, as long as it takes, will make your gameplay much worse than the other way around ;)

Of course, for those of you who want to fly in in your chopper and just blast everything, there'll be missions for that too.

From here on, 'hardcore' refers to how YOU play the game. One of the above methods is more 'hardcore' than the other.

[Frostie]

Two heads are better than one, this statement is true. Yet comparing it to air-to-air fighter jet combat is very bad. You forget that fighters have radars, that have automated dogfight modes, that do not need any additional input from the pilot, than just maneuver the plane to have other jet in radar field of view.

 

Ka-50 and AH-64A targeting systems are not automated, to find and lock on targets by their own! In this case a second pair of eyes and hands is very useful.

If these two helicopters engaged one another then putting a pipper on a target and pressing the trigger is surely not an over complicated process.

 

It could be thought that actually one head would be best suited to do this job as no telepathy or communication is needed between gunner and pilot to achieve the goal, its reliant on the actions of one man rather than two.

Why this interesting thread has degenerated to this pathetic scenario I don't know.

 

And Apache fans can by touchy, indeed ;)

Its probably something to do with having a smaller gun, goto make up with bravado.:P

[GGTharos]

If these two helicopters engaged one another then putting a pipper on a target and pressing the trigger is surely not an over complicated process.

 

It could be thought that actually one head would be best suited to do this job as no telepathy or communication is needed between gunner and pilot to achieve the goal, its reliant on the actions of one man rather than two.

Why this interesting thread has degenerated to this pathetic scenario I don't know.

 

That's because you think it degenerated to it; two persons means twice the scanning ability, or scanning + flying, and it's darned important to do the flying thing right in a heli, those things aren't forgiving.

The idea is that the apache crew theoretically has more chance of seeing the Ka-50 first, simply due to having more eyes out there. THEN you pile superior sensors and display technology on top of that.

Similarly, if the Ka-50 sees the Apache first, the apache is toast - the difference again being, it has less chances of detecting the apache first than the other way around.

This, of course, is mutable by circumstances as well.

 

Its probably something to do with having a smaller gun, goto make up with bravado.:P

 

Has to do with the fact that no one seems to really want the Ka-50 ;)

Looks like gun size isn't everything, but if it interests you so much, there's a GAU-8 waiting for ya ...

[Fang]

Nobody deny that second crew member is useful-but man can't judge two machines only by number of heads inside- I think that's the point of Frost1e's F-16 example.

 

And Apache fans can by touchy, indeed ;)

 

IMHO A Pilot and WSO is more efficient set up in any heli.

 

I'm not an Apache fan, I'm a patient A-10 fan and TBH I'm more intrested in seeing how Ka-50's and Apaches react to a 30mm GAU-8. :thumbup:

[EvilBivol-1]

In the BS sim, I doubt there will be a FAC to hand off targets. I don't think we'll be able to hand targets off to one another either. That's where it may get interesting. A single-seat gunship flying pretty much autonomously insofar as weapons deployment goes, unless there is a flight leader giving direction. But if he's in a BS too then he can't do a lot of coordination of forces once the fight is on unless he reamins at standoff distances. That's not good for gameplay, imho. Then I suppose it's every pilot for him(her)self. I think the Black Shark sim is going to be a real challenge with it's advanced FM, and pilot workload.

Flyby

Although a FAC probably won't make it into Black Shark, something similar is already programmed for the player's flight. A 'reconnaissance' assignment can be radioed to any of your AI wingmen for the current heading and out to a specific distance (1-10km). The wingman proceeds ahead at low altitude and if he encounters any targets, he reports their location and type with a radio call and datalink message. If you choose to accept the datalink message, a target symbol appears on the ABRIS. Up to 4 targets of each type (structure, vehicle, air defense, other) can be stored on memory.

 

In multiplayer, any 4 player-controlled Ka-50s can use the datalink in the same manner, as long as they are on the same radio frequency, the datalink is configured properly and LOS is maintained. If another player/flight uses the same frequency, it will cause interference.

 

PS any ED testors, can you speak to the BS pilot workload in an engagement area?

It can be very hard to fly and fight in the helicopter. That's why it is equipped with various autopilot modes designed to ease the pilot's workload. With training and proper use of autopilot, the flying workload can be significantly reduced, allowing you to focus on the engagement. Naturally, there are always surprises that can ruin your plan of attack and force you to improvise, which can be a challenge, because you suddenly have to go back to flying instead of fighting. Flying low and fast while shooting is very difficult, but flying low and fast, coming to a hover and then shooting is pretty easy. When flying higher and not under immediate thread of the ground, everything is a lot easier.

[GGTharos]

Fang,

 

Not very well ;)

PM if you wanna know ;)

[GGTharos]

To say what EB is saying in a different way:

 

PLAN your flight, and your attacks, right down to when you want to pop CM's (don't assume you'll only be using flares over the target area ... there might be those evil MANPADS guys hiding behind every ridge you cross! so drop those flares pre-emptively!), where you want to fly, which route you'll go in, which you'll use to go out, and what part of land you do NOT wish to fly over (flying over the target can be bad for example).

All of this stuff significantly enhances your survivability.

In a fast jet you could get away with less planning in LO because your speed and ability to haul g's gave you a good chance to avoid and evade problems (though part of this is problematic modeling of just how fast you can or I should say can't go with a load full of bombs, etc) ... helicopters can /only/ avoid, they cannot evade or escape in a timely manner, so plan to make sure you have terrain available for cover, and expect traps!

 

It can be very hard to fly and fight in the helicopter. That's why it is equipped with various autopilot modes designed to ease the pilot's workload. With training and proper use, the flying workload can be significantly reduced, allowing you to focus on the engagement. Naturally, there are always unforeseen challenges and surprises. Flying low and fast while shooting is practically impossible, but flying low and fast, coming to a hover and then shooting is very much possible. When flying higher and not under immediate thread of the ground, everything is a lot easier.

[Fang]

Fang,

 

Not very well ;)

PM if you wanna know ;)

 

Cant wait till I get a hawg. If the damage modelling is good, I might be able to saw the tails off em' then pan around and watch some intresting heli stunts, Now that would be cool.

[Flyby]

thanks for the corrections and feedback guys! :D great stuff, and insight to flying a gunship as opposed to a fast mover. Nice forum, eh?

Flyby