leafer Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Well you know ... Ace Combat and stuff? I mean seriously, if you're going to be that casual about it, there's nothing wrong with that! Otherwise though? Fidelity, and as much as possible! Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm all for fidelity and colorful icing. I fly sims because I love flying, but can't afford 'real' flying. Seriously, I have never flown LO or FC on line and I don't intend to with BS. I know I'll be missing out on something huge but for some reason, I like flying alone. I used to fly around in LO for hours and never fired a shot. That was why I fell in love with the original Flanker, crappy graphics and all, it gave great feeling of flight. So good I gave up on EF2000 and I loved that sim. ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
GGTharos Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 They weren't shocked; you're forgetting something ... these guys had a secret to keep - the fact thatthey already had MiGs on hand. In any case, I'm reading the harrier thing right now, and some of what's written there is ... amusing. Like 'hiding the heat' of the exhaust, which will do little to nothing against a 9L/M at the proper range. ;) Looks like the article does indeed need to be taken with a grain of salt - but like I said ... it's not unheard of. However, once the surprise wears off ... PS: Ah yes ... he knew how to deny a 'valid shot' ... easy enough to do, but not necessarily effective in practice; note the F-15's dove on the SHARs. They could and should have popped'em with 9's right then and there. Tactical error :D I'll also note that the 7E's weren't that great. You wouldn't be doing so well against a 7M, they're far more capable. It is also possible that if 7E's were the BVR weapon, then rear-aspect sidewinders were the heat weapon, which would indeed make the harrier's life much easier. Right now though, with 7M and 9M, not so good. And if we get down to 120's and 9X's, the harrier's in a serious pinch - but back then, yeah, it did alright! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Right, I kinda sorta understand, but I still don't get the 'new and exotic', but this is perhaps because I like to specialize. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm all for fidelity and colorful icing. I fly sims because I love flying, but can't afford 'real' flying. Seriously, I have never flown LO or FC on line and I don't intend to with BS. I know I'll be missing out on something huge but for some reason, I like flying alone. I used to fly around in LO for hours and never fired a shot. That was why I fell in love with the original Flanker, crappy graphics and all, it gave great feeling of flight. So good I gave up on EF2000 and I loved that sim. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
leafer Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 They weren't shocked; you're forgetting something ... these guys had a secret to keep - the fact thatthey already had MiGs on hand. In any case, I'm reading the harrier thing right now, and some of what's written there is ... amusing. Like 'hiding the heat' of the exhaust, which will do little to nothing against a 9L/M at the proper range. ;) Looks like the article does indeed need to be taken with a grain of salt - but like I said ... it's not unheard of. However, once the surprise wears off ... huh...so it's true. The air force does keep an inventory of Russian goodies. Talking about lil' old fighter whooping big bad bird reminded me of a book called Scream of Eagles. It completely slipped from my memory but all this talk about spanking reminded me of it. Scream of Eagles is a must read if you like dog fighting. It's about how Top Gun started and is very gripping. The book started out with a then brand new F4 picking a fight with an F-86 Sabre and got his butt handed to him. Over and over... ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
GGTharos Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Yep! Dogfighting is hard! And yes, the USAF has had MiG-17's, 21's, 29's ... recently they bought even newer ones, IIRC. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RedTiger Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Hehe yeah, I agree: F4AF = silly, OF = hardcore realism... ;) I just wonder how youґll categorize Black Shark then, seeing that it aims for a similar level of "switchology" and fidelity like OF?!? You're missing the point I think. They can make it 100% accurate. Hell ADD buttons to it! Make it 200% accurate!!! I'll play it either way. But you won't find me being a blowhard about how "leet" I am because I fly it. I won't be acting like I'm better than someone because I'm "hardcore" willing to play something that REAL people enlist in the military and do for a living. If you take it that seriously, please grow the hell up and join the USAF/VVS/ADA/etc. You'll be doing us a favor since you'll be busy doing it for real instead of what boils down to arguing about a video game on the internet. If you can't do this, then please keep it to yourself! Most things are pretty neutral on there own. It is usually PEOPLE who just have to come by and muck it up for everyone. There's a reason why I have no desire to register at Frugal's and discuss F4. ;)
GGTharos Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 OMFGOZORZ! Did you say 'game'? Burn the witch! ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RedTiger Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Roflmao... :music_whistling: @RedTiger: You're missing the wink I think. ;);) *settles himself down* Yeah, I must have. Sorry. None of that was addressed at you or anyone in particular. I do get worked up when people act that way though.
Kula66 Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 I do believe there was an effective rebuttal of such posted somewhere by someone who did indeed participate, but I don't remember where to find it now ... the basic idea was that F-15C's would easily just BnZ the Harriers and that was that. I read somewhere where they describe Sea Harriers v German Mig-29s ... and the Harriers got eaten. They tried to exploit the doppler notch and the Germans were just too good - along the lines of "Yes, I saw you were doing that, countered and there you were ... right where I expected you - bang!"
Frostie Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Shar FA2 + BlueVixen + AMRAAM = no more Mig29G, and bring it on Eagle.:tomato: "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
GGTharos Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 They'd fare -maybe- a little worse than the F-16 vs. the F-15 at that point in BVR ... ie ... not that good! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
n00b Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 You're missing the point I think. They can make it 100% accurate. Hell ADD buttons to it! Make it 200% accurate!!! I'd buy that.
RedTiger Posted November 21, 2007 Posted November 21, 2007 Unless you're flying a Mirage III/V or a Sky Hawk ...;) Sooner rather than later ... please. Question for all you people that still play Falcon (not something I've done for a few years) ... what is the AAM missile modelling like these days? I've really only flown F4AF, and even then only against the AI mostly in the campaign. I'm hitting the high points here, not commenting on the stuff used by Mig-23s, 21s, or below. Aim-120s - solid and reliable. Against most opponents, if you launch around 20 or 25 nm, they're going to die. Once the thing goes pitbull you can feel free to maneuver as you wish comfortable in the fact that you'll either get a kill or majorly disrupt the bad guy long enough where your second slammer will get him. R-77s - Bloody annoying and deadly. The earlier you start to try to defeat one, the better. Once you know its gone pitbull, time to start pulling every trick you know and hope that you can shake it. R-27R(E) - Generally easy to avoid, but can still screw you over if you aren't careful. Slammers will often cause the enemy AI to break lock and start fighting the missile, so I've see a lot of these go ballistic in the ACMI. R-27T(E) - annoying to say the least. They seem to be modeled similar to Lockon, actually. The AI uses them as BVR missiles with very good results. I made a thread about how this is unrealistic in the simhq F4AF forum, but no one seemed to care. :(
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