Kneeboard Abstractions

[Mars Exulte]

I was trying to setup some stuff on my peripherals since I've moved to VR and using keyboard etc is obviously a bit awkward due to having to lift the headset and so forth, and discovered you cannot assign joystick commands to these functions. Edit - GROUND ADJUSTMENTS

 

After a moment's annoyance I vaguely recall reading this was a deliberate act because ''realism''. In fact, I'm confident enough in this vague recollection to come here and complain about it.

 

I won't bother listing all the aspects in DCS that aren't ''realistic'', we'd be here all day, suffice it to say the game is full of abstractions including ALL the controls and systems we're using. This isn't the sort of thing devs need to be screwing with. One, it's inappropriate and two, I'll just create a macro and do it on the same button anyway. The only difference is whether or not I'm irritated in the process.

 

If there is some actual technical reason, which is doubtful but I'm open to the possibility, please disregard my post.

Edited March 12, 2020 by zhukov032186

[Victor3]

Not sure exactly which keybinds you are talking about, but I have kneeboard open/close, fwd and backward all bound to buttons on my button box.

[SGT Coyle]

Mine work fine. What's the issue?

[Mars Exulte]

The Harrier specific commands cannot be bound. For example shift + alt + 8 to transfer target points. I have to lift my headset and locate whatever key command is assigned, rather than assigning it to a HOTAS control. And before somebody says something about it not being a HOTAS appropriate command, I have 12+ button panels for a reason, so I can use them.

Edited March 10, 2020 by zhukov032186

[SGT Coyle]

The Harrier specific commands cannot be bound. For example shift + alt + 8 to transfer target points. I have to lift my headset and locate whatever key command is assigned, rather than assigning it to a HOTAS control.

 

 

OK, so what is the controller?

[Mars Exulte]

OK, so what is the controller?

 

Ummmm.... that's not relevant. All DirectX game controllers are the same, what you see as a ''throttle'' or ''joystick'' is just a collection of buttons and axises as far as windows and any game is concerned. The issue is you cannot assign non-keyboard commands to those functions at all. What specific device you're using doesn't matter, as it's a module configuration issue.

[Captain Orso]

I don't know what you are talking about... or you don't... I'm not sure.....

 

I have a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS Throttle and Stick

 

 

I use the thumb switch on the left, the Countermeasures Management Switch (CMS), along with the Pinkie Lever (<Padel>) as a modifier. I also use the throttle thumb-hat-depressed (<Thumb-Hat>) as a modifier.

 

My kneeboard operations are:

 

Open/Close Kneeboard = <Padel><CMS-Forward>

Kneeboard page forward = <Padel><CMS-Right>

Kneeboard page backward = <Padel><CMS-Left>

Kneeboard map marker - set = <Padel><CMS-Depress>

Kneeboard bookmark - set = <Thumb-Hat><CMS-Depress>

Kneeboard bookmark forward = <Thumb-Hat><CMS-Right>

Kneeboard bookmark backward = <Thumb-Hat><CMS-Left>

 

I don't use TM Target software at all. This is all setup with DCS.

[SGT Coyle]

Ummmm.... that's not relevant. All DirectX game controllers are the same, what you see as a ''throttle'' or ''joystick'' is just a collection of buttons and axises as far as windows and any game is concerned. The issue is you cannot assign non-keyboard commands to those functions at all. What specific device you're using doesn't matter, as it's a module configuration issue.

 

 

OK, well my stuff works and yours doesn't. I'll be damned if I going to spend one more second trying to help you with anything.

[Boosterdog]

I know what youre saying Zhukov although for reason others seems to have become focused on the Kneeboard which isnt the issue.

 

For clarity what is being refered to are those bindings that are only bindable in the keyboard section (the other controllers being greyed out). Certainly for me that includes the Ralt+Shift+8 binding to transfer the F10 points to the CAS page.

 

Ive simply reassigned an easier to access key on the board for this (Page Up) but im guessing a VR user will already have uses for such keys.

 

I know some clever devils have added keys for thing like the Huey and Viggen in the lua but that looks hellishly complicated. The only other thing i could suggest is Joy2Key or JoystickGremlim to simply translate one controller button press to a key. Ive used J2K previously for this and alongside TARGET on occasions without any ill effects.

 

All moot though since, as Zhukov points out, there seems little reason why it shouldnt be bindable accross all the controllers. I also dont really see how pressing 3 keys is anymore realistic a solution for immitating a datalink import than pressing one button.

 

SGT Coyle. If your binding for this specific function is working fine as you state Id be interested to hear as this would point to some error in our controller luas.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Boosterdog

[SGT Coyle]

DCS=>Saved Games=>Config=>Input Folder. Delete Joystick Folder.

Restart Game . Contents of Input Folder will be rebuilt.

[Mars Exulte]

stuff

 

 

Yeah, I don't understand how these guys are managing to repeatedly miss the point (though I appreciate the good intentions), but I'm glad at least one person around here can follow @@ I appreciate your suggestions, I know there are multiple workarounds, which I suggested myself using a macro, obviously there are multiple methods of accomplishing that. The point of this thread was not soliciting help from the community, I do not need "help". I'm complaining about a Razbam decision to make certain commands unassignable.

 

And for those of you still apparently confused about what I'm talking about, I provided an example, and Booster repeated it. Go in your options and ACTUALLY LOOK, instead of just gibbering about generic kneeboard functions that have nothing to do with what we're talking about. SHIFT + ALT + 8, and other HARRIER SPECIFIC commands related to their custom kneeboard functions are NOT assignable except via keyboard shortcut. It takes literally 5 seconds (or less) to see what we're talking about.

[SGT Coyle]

Why don't you put it in the bug section instead of globbering on about it here. It's bad enough they don't look in these forums anyway, but it sure won't get fixed if you don't put it in the Bug Section.

 

 

And you're right I completely missed the point because I have those commands mapped to my TMWH as SHIFT + ALT + ?.

It quite honestly never dawned on me that they weren't pat of the control settings.

[Boosterdog]

DCS=>Saved Games=>Config=>Input Folder. Delete Joystick Folder.

Restart Game . Contents of Input Folder will be rebuilt.

 

I dont wish to appear ungrateful or rude but it does appear that you are making assumptions that the lua is corrupt without the benefit of actually being able to check the game, and in particular the module, itself.

 

This does indeed rebuild the Joystick folder to its initial state but, as Zhukov is trying to point out, that state excludes certain keybinds from everything but the keyboard from the get go.

 

For completness i did do this and the result remains the same.

 

The keybinds in question are in the Ground Adjustment category which explain the devs rationale to keep them off the sticks and throttles but in the case of the "Check MAP for target locations" this can be done, at least partially, in flight with 4 targets. At least thats how its modelled in dcs.

 

As im still learning the Harrier I am assuming that the other items such as adjustments to the rockets are not accessable in flight. This would make sense given such adjustments are made on the ground. If this is the case then that would indicate some weight off wheels bar (so the abilty to change settings is stopped or limited once the Harrier is airborne) is coded.

 

If this is so then there is no apparent reason to limit the abilty to bind keys and deny a little more functionality for VR players unless, as Zhukov originally said, there is a technical limitation.

[Captain Orso]

Yeah, I don't understand how these guys are managing to repeatedly miss the point (though I appreciate the good intentions), but I'm glad at least one person around here can follow @@ I appreciate your suggestions, I know there are multiple workarounds, which I suggested myself using a macro, obviously there are multiple methods of accomplishing that. The point of this thread was not soliciting help from the community, I do not need "help". I'm complaining about a Razbam decision to make certain commands unassignable.

 

And for those of you still apparently confused about what I'm talking about, I provided an example, and Booster repeated it. Go in your options and ACTUALLY LOOK, instead of just gibbering about generic kneeboard functions that have nothing to do with what we're talking about. SHIFT + ALT + 8, and other HARRIER SPECIFIC commands related to their custom kneeboard functions are NOT assignable except via keyboard shortcut. It takes literally 5 seconds (or less) to see what we're talking about.

 

Okay, you got to "complain", now it's my turn. If you had said that the Ground Adjustments category in controller settings will not accept assignments from controllers, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE KNOW WHAT YOU MEANT RIGHT FROM THE START!!

 

I'd resort to calling you an pea brained, moron for wasting everyone's time and effort to help you, but that wouldn't be cologial... just like wasting everyone's time just so that you can complain smh.

[Mars Exulte]

When you open the kneeboard, the first thing you see are Harrier specific commands. I will grant my first post was a bit vague, regardless, I repeatedly mentioned the Harrier specific kneeboard commands (you know, where they are), and the specific example has been cited no less than three times.

 

The regular kneeboard commands are

A. Not Harrier specific

B. Not a three key combo

C. Obviously work

D. Probably not what I'm talking about

 

Sorry I forgot the category name, I didn't use that to locate them. Despite this one missed detail, the rest was pretty clear. I can only assume you guys don't use the Harrier's JDAMs or tinker with countermeasures, because it should have been pretty clear what I was referring to... you know, the big kneeboard abstraction for Harrier specific commands. Also had your lat/long there, but I have that part preprogrammed (alignment used to be borked, I think it may be fixed now, will have to test it later)

[Mars Exulte]

Why don't you put it in the bug section instead of globbering on about it here. It's bad enough they don't look in these forums anyway, but it sure won't get fixed if you don't put it in the Bug Section.

 

 

And you're right I completely missed the point because I have those commands mapped to my TMWH as SHIFT + ALT + ?.

It quite honestly never dawned on me that they weren't pat of the control settings.

 

It's cool, I didn't mean anything terrible toward you guys, was just frustrated everybody kept missing the point, though I partially contributed to that as Orso pointed out.

 

The reason I complained instead of a bug report, as mentioned in the first post, I'm 99% certain this is not a bug but a deliberate choice. I remember Decoy I think it was responding to a similar complaint with something about it being deliberately cumbersome because ground crew or some nonsense. I could be misremembering, but I'm REALLY sure I'm not.

 

The purpose was to draw attention to it again, as most folks seem to have forgotten, and request they alter that for user friendliness. I can program a macro, it's just there's no sensible reason for this to be locked out of usage in the first place.

[SGT Coyle]

No worries