7 months of VR issues

[BIGNEWY]

Cool! I understand that it is a huge undertaking for you guys.

 

Also nearly never mentioned in such VR-related topic, are the performances and bottleneck of the head sets themselves.

 

Basically, with the hardware many posters have, a good headset should provide them with far better playing experience than it is the case at the moment.

 

VR headset manufacturers have failed so far to come anywhere near the levels of sharpness offered by screens and if you compare what is possible with the use of witch hats and VR there is a question everyone should be asking.

 

WHY is it apparently impossible for them to provide us with the same level of sharpness with a headset when in fact, the total field of view is often lower?

 

I think the real bottleneck is not DCS not the hardware we pay for but the VR head sets themselves, they are behind in terms of development.

 

 

.....

 

Good point, and I hope my preordered reverb G2 is everything I hope it will be once it arrives lol :)

 

Mrs BIGNEWY didn't like seeing that chunk of money come out of the account lol

[Rosebud47]

In my observation regarding VR for the last 2 years, ED is doing a really good job to make VR work on a general level independent of VR headset manufacturer or API.

They´ve implemented an adjustment tool for the WMR headsets users, they did solved the VR zoom issue for the canted display issue of the Pimax headsets and are ongoing supporting VR by the implementation of Vulkan, which is a fantastic solution especially for VR. The enthusiasm of ED for VR is pretty obvious. You could also see it on some older .lua files, which offers independent adjustments for VR, which meanwhile are not really needed any more. Also there are always some improvements for VR noticable.

 

I would blame ED for some other things, I personaly like to criticize, but not for the attention and emphasize ED is putting on VR.

 

If complaining the performance in VR before 2.5 in comparison, it must be taken into consideration, that the amount of new effects to process do tax the overall performance, what might be especially noticable in VR, like the new lighting effects, new trees, new terrain etc.

In addition to the constantly improving visuals and its demand on performance, the newer headsets come with nearly double the resolution of the first gen VR headsets like HTC Vive or Rift.

 

It is never any VR headset responsible for the performance in first place. It is the resolution of the images and graphical settings, which is responsable for the demand of performance.

Well, the VR headsets are only responsible for higher demand, because you can´t adjust the resolution in the VR headset, like on a monitor. It is not unusual to expect a higher demand for performance with a VR headset which resolution is close to 4k than with a VR headset with 1200 x 1080 resolution.

 

Anyhow there are issues, like the clouds, contrails, etc. in VR, but I am confident they will be solved, when the time has come. It doesn´t make sense to constantly put a nerve on every minor issue, while disregarding the mayor steps taken by ED to improve the overall VR experience.

 

I´m very happy that Vulkan has become a main thing and focus even in the top management of Eagle Dynamics. With Vulkan there are many techniques for VR right in the box, like VR SLI etc. to implement in DCS.

[Svsmokey]

In my observation regarding VR for the last 2 years, ED is doing a really good job to make VR work on a general level independent of VR headset manufacturer or API.

They´ve implemented an adjustment tool for the WMR headsets users, they did solved the VR zoom issue for the canted display issue of the Pimax headsets and are ongoing supporting VR by the implementation of Vulkan, which is a fantastic solution especially for VR. The enthusiasm of ED for VR is pretty obvious. You could also see it on some older .lua files, which offers independent adjustments for VR, which meanwhile are not really needed any more. Also there are always some improvements for VR noticable.

 

I would blame ED for some other things, I personaly like to criticize, but not for the attention and emphasize ED is putting on VR.

 

If complaining the performance in VR before 2.5 in comparison, it must be taken into consideration, that the amount of new effects to process do tax the overall performance, what might be especially noticable in VR, like the new lighting effects, new trees, new terrain etc.

In addition to the constantly improving visuals and its demand on performance, the newer headsets come with nearly double the resolution of the first gen VR headsets like HTC Vive or Rift.

 

It is never any VR headset responsible for the performance in first place. It is the resolution of the images and graphical settings, which is responsable for the demand of performance.

Well, the VR headsets are only responsible for higher demand, because you can´t adjust the resolution in the VR headset, like on a monitor. It is not unusual to expect a higher demand for performance with a VR headset which resolution is close to 4k than with a VR headset with 1200 x 1080 resolution.

 

Anyhow there are issues, like the clouds, contrails, etc. in VR, but I am confident they will be solved, when the time has come. It doesn´t make sense to constantly put a nerve on every minor issue, while disregarding the mayor steps taken by ED to improve the overall VR experience.

 

I´m very happy that Vulkan has become a main thing and focus even in the top management of Eagle Dynamics. With Vulkan there are many techniques for VR right in the box, like VR SLI etc. to implement in DCS.

 

Well said !

[Thinder]

It is never any VR headset responsible for the performance in first place. It is the resolution of the images and graphical settings, which is responsable for the demand of performance.

Well, the VR headsets are only responsible for higher demand, because you can´t adjust the resolution in the VR headset, like on a monitor. It is not unusual to expect a higher demand for performance with a VR headset which resolution is close to 4k than with a VR headset with 1200 x 1080 resolution.

 

 

 

The problem I see in the VR headset technology right now, is that it was derived from that of the screens which logically was always going to be an issue.

 

One only have to put one nose on the screen to see the same "grid" effect as in those devices, the amount of pixels available doesn't change that, it is a limit embedded into the LCD panels technology used.

 

Developers starts to depart from this solution and it is just as well, because VR headsets are not used like screens, we need a different way for pixels to be generated and made visible to the eye.

 

So I think it will take a little time for headset developers to come up with a viable technology and solutions to make their devices more performant but also less demanding on systems specs.

 

They will improve sharpness and we will be able to read small labels in cockpits pretty soon, apparently it is already the case with the HP Reverb G2 but I bet that some more performant headsets will follow sooner than later.

 

 

...

[Rosebud47]

Except for the mobile Snapdragon headsets ( e.g. Quest ), there is no graphic adapter in the stationary PC based VR headsets.

 

We are now facing some irony, in the way, that people now demand for a better visual quality ( higher resolution, wider FOV ) for the headsets and complaining with the same breath a limited performance they get with better quality headsets. The irony is, that the industry knew that before and therefore kept the visual quality for the headsets low, for them being more performant in use.

The problem with performance relates to the GPU/CPU, which currently are optimized for single image processing, but not for stereo vision by its hardware architecture.

 

John Carmack said some years ago, that there is needed a resolution of 16k to be on par with natural human vision in a VR headset. Means with 16k displays, you won´t see anymore screendoor.

 

Nvidia surely could provide bigger steps in performance within their graphics adapter generations, but meanwhile their focus is to satisfy their shareholders ( consumer will buy anything you throw at them in anyway ), therefore Nvidias strategy is to lower the performance gain from one GPU generation to the next, to make you buy at least every two years a new graphic adapter. AMD is always a step behind in terms of performance, but for sure they also need to satisfy their shareholder in first place and there is no alternative/competition for Nvidia and AMD.

 

Coming back to display technology. Maybe you are aiming for lightfield technology in your posting, but it is far away from being an alternative to liquid crystals or any specialization of it.

 

Recently I saw a commercial in TV of a new LG Flatscreen with Nanopixel technology - sounds promising, doesn´t it? In fact LG as the world technology leader in display technology does owe a VR headset to the world! Hahaha. LG presented a prototype VR headset at CES three or four years ago with 1600 x 1200 resolution and a flip up design, but it was very clumsy and didn´t go into production. So there´s still to expect a VR headset of LG with technically advanced displays for the consumer market.

 

Also the new MSFS2020 will push the industry to provide some new and advanced WMR headsets, like the HP Reverb 2... maybe better with wider FOV. Actually I believe, that the VR functionality in MSFS2020 is already implemented, but not yet released, because they are waiting for HP to have enough Reverb G2 on stock to be sold for the VR MSFS2020 and vice versa. Current statistics note, that MSFS2020 already sells more HOTAS hardware. Once the VR mode is active, it will sell VR headsets. Hopefully there will be more of the original WMR headsets manufacturer, like Samsung, Lenovo, Acer. etc. be present with a new device when MSFS2020 gets VR support.

 

Just for the fun of it, let´s take a look in a more far away future.

I don´t know how old you are, but maybe you got the chance to witness the revolution in computer processing by cloud based quantum computing, which are capable to provide a billion times more performance, than any current physical transistor based CPU. In this future you won´t have anymore a CPU under your desk or a hardware drive, only a display as a client connected to a centralized quantum computer and never anymore performance issues in VR.

Sounds like science fiction, but Google already got a prototype quantum computer in use. Only a matter of time for it to be used subsequently to conventional CPUs. This just noting to make the connection between performance and VR headset more imaginable.

[Thinder]

Except for the mobile Snapdragon headsets ( e.g. Quest ), there is no graphic adapter in the stationary PC based VR headsets.

 

We are now facing some irony, in the way, that people now demand for a better visual quality ( higher resolution, wider FOV ) for the headsets and complaining with the same breath a limited performance they get with better quality headsets.

 

That's what technological advances should result in, there is no point in developing technologies if there is no gain at this level.

 

Just imagine the progresses made from Pentium II to now, do you really think that LCD panels technology have followed the same curve?

 

I personally think that there is much more to come from VR developers but obviously they have the issues you mentioned (shareholders) but also they need to be competitive.

 

I remember the time where Evans and Sutherland and Silicon Graphics were the main Graphic chipset developers (for aviation simulation which I followed closely), they took the decision to mix their civilian and military development and offer COTS products to both military and civilian customers.

 

It paid their development, most Western air Forces are using COTS chipsets now, at squadron levels they use PC-based simulators, even DCS modules (USAF and AdlA),

 

So they always have a way to keep their development drive going, top players are paying the premium most of the time and by doing so, finance part of their R&D.

 

......

Edited August 25, 2020 by Thinder

[Dav IRL]

Good point, and I hope my preordered reverb G2 is everything I hope it will be once it arrives lol :)

 

Mrs BIGNEWY didn't like seeing that chunk of money come out of the account lol

 

 

Amen to that

 

 

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