R-Darter And PL-15

[[PTF]Ali]

On official Jf-17 Wikipedia i saw many A/A missiles which are absent in DCS jf-17 armament, Will we get these missiles in future to compete with new modules like Eurofighter Typhoon etc?

 

[hamza_Khan]

Don't trust Wikipedia, It's full of bogus information (no Citations provided). For A/A, JF-17 can only carry PL5EII and SD-10A.

 

PL-15 is planned for Block 3, nothing official yet.

Edited July 19, 2020 by hamza_Khan

[[PTF]Ali]

Don't trust Wikipedia, It's full of bogus information (no Citations provided). For A/A, JF-17 can only carry PL5EII and SD-10A.

 

PL-15 is planned for Block 3, nothing official yet.

 

So what are sources which can back your claims? I guess there was PL-15 in block 2, Since that was classified or something, Wikipedia combine information from sources and then compile it...

[Chiron]

So what are sources which can back your claims? I guess there was PL-15 in block 2, Since that was classified or something, Wikipedia combine information from sources and then compile it...

 

if PAK upgraded JF-17 block 2 RADAR other than that the current RADAR version dont support PL-15 so he dont need resource for that and yes WIKI not a trusted source cuz Dart missiles still in negotiations between PAK and south Africa so how can WIKI say there is Dart missiles in JF-17 arsenal and they didn't got it yet unless they know the future

[AeriaGloria]

As what the others have said that wiki entry is just speculation being sold as fact. If it was actually done right there would be citations, without citations it’s just words some one out there and no one has corrected it.

 

There are hopes for A darter to be incorporated eventually, they have long talked about it but never bought it. PAF has good relationship with South Africa, however if Block 3 gets PL-10 first they will never buy A-darter

[J-20]

So what are sources which can back your claims? I guess there was PL-15 in block 2, Since that was classified or something, Wikipedia combine information from sources and then compile it...

 

 

Right now we are getting the Pakistan in service version of block 2 JF-17.

PL-15 was designed for AESA radars which block 2 JF-17 doesn't have.

 

If you want to have a better version of JF-17, then blame your airforce.

China offered PL-9, EOS, helmet sight, and WS-13 engine (you can even see those button on the AAP panel)

But Pakistan airforce has been such a cheap barst*rd and refused to pay a little bit extra money for those. Now we are stuck with the Pakistan in service version of block 2 JF-17. So if you want to nag on somebody, go and nag on your airforce.

 

If you manage to nag through them and get them to buy those upgrades, then I am sure Deka would happy to add them into the DCS.

Edited July 19, 2020 by J-20

[Harlikwin]

:megalol: LOL. PL15? The jeff radar can barely pick up a target at a long enough range to use the SD10 effectively. A 100nm range missile with a radar that might pick a target up at 50nm. LOFL.... wikipedia.... :megalol:

[AeriaGloria]

:megalol: LOL. PL15? The jeff radar can barely pick up a target at a long enough range to use the SD10 effectively. A 100nm range missile with a radar that might pick a target up at 50nm. LOFL.... wikipedia.... :megalol:

 

Yeah that’s the biggest problem even if it did work. You might as well just use the AESA on the missile!

[Chiron]

yes u can pray for pak to buy PL-10 not A-Dart and even if they got it i dont think it will be for block II

[hamza_Khan]

yes u can pray for pak to buy PL-10 not A-Dart and even if they got it i dont think it will be for block II

 

During Hushkit interview, the pilot did mention that pl-10 is currently in the pipeline. No news since then though.

 

So what are sources which can back your claims? I guess there was PL-15 in block 2, Since that was classified or something, Wikipedia combine information from sources and then compile it...

 

For weapons, best source is promotional videos and JF-17 in airshows displaying weapons. for some basic performance and capability : https://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

Edited July 20, 2020 by hamza_Khan

[Chiron]

During Hushkit interview, the pilot did mention that pl-10 is currently in the pipeline. No news since then though.

 

 

 

For weapons, best source is promotional videos and JF-17 in airshows displaying weapons. for some basic performance and capability : https://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

 

got u mentioned this site hamza cuz i dont think that our JF can hit 1.6 mach

[hamza_Khan]

got u mentioned this site hamza cuz i dont think that our JF can hit 1.6 mach

 

 

Try 25-26Kft alt, clean configuration + Full AB. Then You'll see the magic number 1.58-1.6 :megalol:

Edited July 20, 2020 by hamza_Khan

[[PTF]Ali]

:megalol: LOL. PL15? The jeff radar can barely pick up a target at a long enough range to use the SD10 effectively. A 100nm range missile with a radar that might pick a target up at 50nm. LOFL.... wikipedia.... :megalol:

 

Negative, If you talking about DCS its true, But if you talking about real life then my dude Fox3 is not dependent on radar guidance it is also connected with datalink and other platforms like AWACS. You don't need Jf-17 radar only to lock and engage bandits.

 

Wikipedia info is true. Most of the people here are wrong and has superficial opinions. I wanna hear from official entities not you sorry.

Edited July 20, 2020 by AliPG

[[PTF]Ali]

Right now we are getting the Pakistan in service version of block 2 JF-17.

PL-15 was designed for AESA radars which block 2 JF-17 doesn't have.

 

If you want to have a better version of JF-17, then blame your airforce.

China offered PL-9, EOS, helmet sight, and WS-13 engine (you can even see those button on the AAP panel)

But Pakistan airforce has been such a cheap barst*rd and refused to pay a little bit extra money for those. Now we are stuck with the Pakistan in service version of block 2 JF-17. So if you want to nag on somebody, go and nag on your airforce.

 

If you manage to nag through them and get them to buy those upgrades, then I am sure Deka would happy to add them into the DCS.

 

Negative, There is no reason to blame anything, The project vision is to have reasonable price jets not looting other states with shining canopies.

 

Block 3 jf-17 one only in the world is budget friendly AESA radar capable jet which can ground any stealth plane in the world, If 30 million jet can ground 180 million jet there is no sense looting states and your people with taxes...

 

JF-17 has approach of efficiency and effectivity at same time and has very optimistic profile. You upgrade things when you need it... Jf-17 is made for Pakistan requirements not your requirements sir.

Edited July 20, 2020 by AliPG

[[PTF]Ali]

As what the others have said that wiki entry is just speculation being sold as fact. If it was actually done right there would be citations, without citations it’s just words some one out there and no one has corrected it.

 

There are hopes for A darter to be incorporated eventually, they have long talked about it but never bought it. PAF has good relationship with South Africa, however if Block 3 gets PL-10 first they will never buy A-darter

 

Sorry sir but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder has complete citation list and references.

[AeriaGloria]

1.

Negative, If you talking about DCS its true, But if you talking about real life then my dude Fox3 is not dependent on radar guidance it is also connected with datalink and other platforms like AWACS. You don't need Jf-17 radar only to lock and engage bandits.

 

Wikipedia info is true. Most of the people here are wrong and has superficial opinions. I wanna hear from official entities not you sorry.

 

1. PL-15 can be used over DL you are right, but guess what that probably requires upgrade to data link of JF-17 Block II and ZDK-03 AWACS, so it’s not like PL-15 could be used to be fired by AWACS through datalink on Block II just by adding PL-15. So let’s say PL-15 can go 100nm before pitbul, JF-17 Block 1/2 DL most assuredly can’t handle the 100nm range needed when it was designed for a 37nm missile

 

2.

Negative, There is no reason to blame anything, The project vision is to have reasonable price jets not looting other states with shining canopies.

 

Block 3 jf-17 one only in the world is budget friendly AESA radar capable jet which can ground any stealth plane in the world, If 30 million jet can ground 180 million jet there is no sense looting states and your people with taxes...

 

JF-17 has approach of efficiency and effectivity at same time and has very optimistic profile. You upgrade things when you need it... Jf-17 is made for Pakistan requirements not your requirements sir.

 

2. I think what J-20 means is that becuase of this cost effective approach, it means there are lots of plans on places like Wikipedia which are talked about but not yet implemented or never were implemented, like it listing PL-15. But there are also many other things which wiki lists but it will never have, which I will mention in response to point #3

 

3.

Sorry sir but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder has complete citation list and references.

 

3. It has many citations but multiple times as many facts, maybe five times as many or more. Sure not everything needs citation, but there is some ridiculous stuff on that page. So Not everything is cited as they should be. There is no individual citation to back up claim of the majority of weapons listed including PL-9, PL-15, A-Darter, Ra’ad, ALR-67(lol), AIM-9L, Exocet(seriously??), I could go on. The only air to air weapon that even has a citation at all is SD-10!

 

So don’t trust all the “facts” on webpage just becuase a few things are cited.

 

I could go line by line and point out what’s cited what’s not and what’s cited incorrectly but I won’t becuase it would take forever and I already know how bogus a lot of the information is on it

 

Now to also be clear, I am always the first person to argue that Wikipedia can be a good “first step” for research and information, that it can be reliable for education as long as you look at the citation for an individual claim. Things like JF-17 are so complex so unknown have so many false information and perceptions out there already that you’re always going to have more misinformation then the average Wikipedia article. It is just not something enough people know about for there to be someone to edit the Wikipedia articles and actually be correct

 

It is just the nature of these information wiki conglomerates, to put up any info online and just wait for it to get corrected, which may never happen

 

I would edit but I am lazy and not interested

Edited July 20, 2020 by AeriaGloria

[J-20]

 

Block 3 jf-17 one only in the world is budget friendly AESA radar capable jet which can ground any stealth plane in the world, If 30 million jet can ground 180 million jet there is no sense looting states and your people with taxes...

 

 

You are delusional if you think JF-17 can ground any 5th gen fighters in the world. Despite how advance it maybe, it is still a 4th gen budget fighter.

[[PTF]Ali]

You are delusional if you think JF-17 can ground any 5th gen fighters in the world. Despite how advance it maybe, it is still a 4th gen budget fighter.

 

so discussion was about PL-15 and Darter, And you care about this plane which is most successful fighter and combat proven jet... It got proof but what you sir have other than superficial comments. so plz discuss what title of this post is thanks.

Edited July 20, 2020 by AliPG

[Chiron]

so discussion was about PL-15 and Darter, And you my dude care about plane itself which is most successful fighter and combat proven jet... It got proof but what you sir have other than superficial comments. so plz discuss what title of this post is thanks.

 

guys forget about this stuff we are not comparing fighters in real life and the most important element is the pilot even if the fighter is the most modern fighter in the whole world he can lose the fight if he is not expert so lets not talk about fighters modern capabilities cuz F-35 supposed to be stealth yet its not . so we are missing a lot of classified info to determinate that .. JF-17 block III can detect stealth fighter or not ( we dont know 100% ) no info and also what stealth technology we are talking about cuz its different and stealth can be useless when the fight become closer so that is not our discussion here its a whole different Topic and long one with no certified data to even start a conversation

 

AliPG there is no such a thing called ( the most successful fighter ) there is no rules or some standard parametric to determine that .. its all about fighter lifetime like F-15 had the most incredible sheet for no lose and a lot of operations done and air targets and ground

 

conclusion fighters sheet is the only thing can determine if this jet is good or not .. not just Airshow and or 1 victory or 2

 

and about PL-15 we already closed this case and let me put it that way if there is a picture for that then we can talk and dont tell me that if JF-17 II can carry PL-15 PAK will hide it ( u underestimate war propaganda ) so if JF-17 block II can carry PL-15 PAK will show off to scare India and promote for JF-17 to be more efficient exported fighter

Edited July 20, 2020 by Chiron

[[PTF]Ali]

1. PL-15 can be used over DL you are right, but guess what that probably requires upgrade to data link of JF-17 Block II and ZDK-03 AWACS, so it’s not like PL-15 could be used to be fired by AWACS through datalink on Block II just by adding PL-15. So let’s say PL-15 can go 100nm before pitbul, JF-17 Block 1/2 DL most assuredly can’t handle the 100nm range needed when it was designed for a 37nm missile

 

JF-17 block 2 has one the most advance datalink, Link17 which is advance than Link16 F16 block 50 in DCS, So DCS jf-17 is early access but when you look at the f16 link in dcs you will get a better idea what datalink can do (Even it is not properly simulated) It is 100% possible block 2 can launch PL-15 with the guidance of Datalink, You don't have to rely on radar and also DCS simulation,

 

2. I think what J-20 means is that becuase of this cost effective approach, it means there are lots of plans on places like Wikipedia which are talked about but not yet implemented or never were implemented, like it listing PL-15. But there are also many other things which wiki lists but it will never have, which I will mention in response to point #3

 

I have no idea what you mean but J-20 is not cost effective nor it is project to be cost effective.

 

3. It has many citations but multiple times as many facts, maybe five times as many or more. Sure not everything needs citation, but there is some ridiculous stuff on that page. So Not everything is cited as they should be. There is no individual citation to back up claim of the majority of weapons listed including PL-9, PL-15, A-Darter, Ra’ad, ALR-67(lol), AIM-9L, Exocet(seriously??), I could go on. The only air to air weapon that even has a citation at all is SD-10!

So don’t trust all the “facts” on webpage just becuase a few things are cited.

I could go line by line and point out what’s cited what’s not and what’s cited incorrectly but I won’t becuase it would take forever and I already know how bogus a lot of the information is on it

Now to also be clear, I am always the first person to argue that Wikipedia can be a good “first step” for research and information, that it can be reliable for education as long as you look at the citation for an individual claim. Things like JF-17 are so complex so unknown have so many false information and perceptions out there already that you’re always going to have more misinformation then the average Wikipedia article. It is just not something enough people know about for there to be someone to edit the Wikipedia articles and actually be correct

It is just the nature of these information wiki conglomerates, to put up any info online and just wait for it to get corrected, which may never happen

I would edit but I am lazy and not interested

 

You are the first guy i ever seen who believe on citation than classified information, Element of surprise exists in warzone you should know. If you care about citation more than classified info then everything on Wikipedia is fake and DCS as well.

Edited July 20, 2020 by AliPG

[[PTF]Ali]

and about PL-15 we already closed this case and let me put it that way if there is a picture for that then we can talk and dont tell me that if JF-17 II can carry PL-15 PAK will hide it ( u underestimate war propaganda ) so if JF-17 block II can carry PL-15 PAK will show off to scare India and promote for JF-17 to be more efficient exported fighter

 

I'm not in intelligence nor you i believe, Sorry but your claims are also false, If you talking about real life then you think what Russia showing is complete picture of its military, I guess your claim are superficial as other guys who has no idea how upgradation work in real life and block numbers has no relation with upgradations similar to DCS block 1 JF-17 which is descended into block 2.

[J-20]

JF-17 block 2 has one the most advance datalink, Link17 which is advance than Link16 F16 block 50 in DCS, So DCS jf-17 is early access but when you look at the f16 link in dcs you will get a better idea what datalink can do (Even it is not properly simulated) It is 100% possible block 2 can launch PL-15 with the guidance of Datalink, You don't have to rely on radar and also DCS simulation,

 

 

 

I have no idea what you mean but J-20 is not cost effective nor it is project to be cost effective.

 

3. It has many citations but multiple times as many facts, maybe five times as many or more. Sure not everything needs citation, but there is some ridiculous stuff on that page. So Not everything is cited as they should be. There is no individual citation to back up claim of the majority of weapons listed including PL-9, PL-15, A-Darter, Ra’ad, ALR-67(lol), AIM-9L, Exocet(seriously??), I could go on. The only air to air weapon that even has a citation at all is SD-10!

So don’t trust all the “facts” on webpage just becuase a few things are cited.

I could go line by line and point out what’s cited what’s not and what’s cited incorrectly but I won’t becuase it would take forever and I already know how bogus a lot of the information is on it

Now to also be clear, I am always the first person to argue that Wikipedia can be a good “first step” for research and information, that it can be reliable for education as long as you look at the citation for an individual claim. Things like JF-17 are so complex so unknown have so many false information and perceptions out there already that you’re always going to have more misinformation then the average Wikipedia article. It is just not something enough people know about for there to be someone to edit the Wikipedia articles and actually be correct

It is just the nature of these information wiki conglomerates, to put up any info online and just wait for it to get corrected, which may never happen

I would edit but I am lazy and not interested

 

You are the first guy i ever seen who believe on citation than classified information, Element of surprise exists in warzone you should know. If you care about citation more than classified info then everything on Wikipedia is fake and DCS as well.

 

lol you are adorable.

always fun to watching people living in their own world :megalol:

[Chiron]

I'm not in intelligence nor you i believe, Sorry but your claims are also false, If you talking about real life then you think what Russia showing is complete picture of its military, I guess your claim are superficial as other guys who has no idea how upgradation work in real life and block numbers has no relation with upgradations similar to DCS block 1 JF-17 which is descended into block 2.

 

i am not claiming anything but watch how PAK show their JF-17 arsenal in military shows and also i can tell u that u are wrong cuz they announce Ra'ad experiment launch from a mirage now if they are want it as element of surprise why a test of Ra'ad has been announced and also there is a pic of the moment of launch ....

 

also remove russia from this equation pls cuz they are not PAK and they dont need to show everything

[AeriaGloria]

JF-17 block 2 has one the most advance datalink, Link17 which is advance than Link16 F16 block 50 in DCS, So DCS jf-17 is early access but when you look at the f16 link in dcs you will get a better idea what datalink can do (Even it is not properly simulated) It is 100% possible block 2 can launch PL-15 with the guidance of Datalink, You don't have to rely on radar and also DCS simulation,

 

 

 

I have no idea what you mean but J-20 is not cost effective nor it is project to be cost effective.

 

3. It has many citations but multiple times as many facts, maybe five times as many or more. Sure not everything needs citation, but there is some ridiculous stuff on that page. So Not everything is cited as they should be. There is no individual citation to back up claim of the majority of weapons listed including PL-9, PL-15, A-Darter, Ra’ad, ALR-67(lol), AIM-9L, Exocet(seriously??), I could go on. The only air to air weapon that even has a citation at all is SD-10!

So don’t trust all the “facts” on webpage just becuase a few things are cited.

I could go line by line and point out what’s cited what’s not and what’s cited incorrectly but I won’t becuase it would take forever and I already know how bogus a lot of the information is on it

Now to also be clear, I am always the first person to argue that Wikipedia can be a good “first step” for research and information, that it can be reliable for education as long as you look at the citation for an individual claim. Things like JF-17 are so complex so unknown have so many false information and perceptions out there already that you’re always going to have more misinformation then the average Wikipedia article. It is just not something enough people know about for there to be someone to edit the Wikipedia articles and actually be correct

It is just the nature of these information wiki conglomerates, to put up any info online and just wait for it to get corrected, which may never happen

I would edit but I am lazy and not interested

 

You are the first guy i ever seen who believe on citation than classified information, Element of surprise exists in warzone you should know. If you care about citation more than classified info then everything on Wikipedia is fake and DCS as well.

 

As for data link, the data link for guiding the missiles and the link17 used for HSD are completely separate different systems, it having a link16 analog says nothing about it’s ability to support data link of PL-15 at the ranges needed

 

As for J-20, I was referring to the poster here by the name of J-20

 

As for citations, I don’t know what you mean about classified. You’re not going to have much classified info on Wikipedia. Classified or not I won’t believe something without evidence. Perhaps you are saying JF-17 can actually carry these weapons and that they are classified and PAF just makes it seem like it can’t have A-darter and PL-15? All that is theory and guess work if there’s no evidence

 

Classified information being important and secretive does not mean wild crazy claims on Wikipedia should be believed

[L0op8ack]

:)evidence priority we applied:

in cockpit live video > live simulator pic/video > real life external video/pic in air > real life pic on ground > weapon list in manual > any news > wiki > ’I think’

Edited July 20, 2020 by L0op8ack