R-27ET right after R-27ER

[Ironhand]

The one thing I couldn't figure out does the switch also disable auto-STT from TWS or not... since that would be nice thing to have.

 

No. You’re looking for the Lock: Auto/Manual switch next to the SUV seven position switch (Nav, EOS, Radar etc). In Auto the RLPK automatically transitions to what we call STT or, if the OLS is primary, then the first detected target is automatically locked. If set to Manual...

[Fri13]

I’m at work and can’t answer everything due to both limited knowledge and time. But, as far as the PVI-10PE2 is concerned:

 

Thank you very much for your effort.

 

1) the “Empty Launchers” window/ light indicates when the unguided rocket launchers are empty. The “Discard” switch is to jettison the empty launchers.

 

Okay, so if I now understand correctly:

 

1) It is only for the rocket pods and not for any other weapon?

2) Once you have launched any rocket pod empty, the light will lit up and you can just press it and all empty pods are ejected?

 

2) the Launch Authorized: Auto-Manual switch determines whether the SUO issues the Release Authorized instruction automatically or is forced to do so manually.

 

1) Is this now the in-game "LA override" feature?

2) Does this mean that you are required to set manually the target distance (estimation)?

3) Sounds to be only for a missiles when you have a lock, but you can't solve the range?

 

3) the Uncontrolled Launch switch (middle of panel) with detent (a pressure switch) is used for the uncontrolled (emergency) launch of guided missiles from their launch pylons.

 

1) This sounds to be the in-game feature "LA override" feature for R-27ET that you can launch it without a lock? So you would select R-27ET and then flip this switch to launch it when you can not have a lock.

 

 

4) the Emergency Release switch ( bottom right of panel) is used for emergency release of weapons from either ejector pylons or bomb rails.

 

1) This doesn't do anything for the rail adapters, or unguided rockets?

2) Is this "select a station, flip switch to eject" or "select a station, flip a switch, pull a trigger"

3) does it eject all stations or just selected ones?

 

5) the Detonation-No Detonation switch is used to initialize the fuse of a bomb during emergency release if set to “detonation”.

 

Okay, so only for emergency ejection process and nothing to do with overall bomb or rocket fusing.

 

 

6) the Close-Range/Long-Range Combat switch on the stick is used to select the type of missile for close range combat, given the presence of other weapons (long-range missiles, for example).

 

So only for the missile type selection (BVR/WVR) without any changes to targeting modes or so?

 

7) the Alternative Suspension button on the throttle block is used to manually reselect weapons of varying types on stations 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, and 10.

 

Does the "change weapon" button switch between the kind (T or R of R-27) of missiles of same type (all being a BVR weapons) and it is automatically selected which side or station is used for that type?

 

Edit: BTW, the expected target range is entered via a slider on the throttle block. Target lock and discard a located there as well.

 

Yes, that "unlock" (in-game as "continue search") is fairly nicely hidden at the front.

 

On the SUV ( left hand panel):

 

8 ) the Targeting: Auto-Manual switch in Auto gives control of the cursor’s center to someone outside the aircraft (ground automatic control system for example). Manual allows the pilot to control the cursor and manually enter the range.

 

So likely any source over datalink that has "higher authority" than the aircraft programmed to be (from the right side)?

 

 

9) the “P” (P, Nav, EOS, Radar) is actually Pi0. You target a visible target directly with the infrared missile’s homing head.

 

So it is the "Boresight" mode, like with R-60 or R-73 in a Su-25?

 

And at this point I have to get back to pretending to work.

 

Thanks for your time.

[pepin1234]

1) This sounds to be the in-game feature "LA override" feature for R-27ET that you can launch it without a lock? So you would select R-27ET and then flip this switch to launch it when you can not have a lock.

 

With Override you have a solid lock with onboard sensors and head seeker is pointing the locked target but without a solid IR signature.

 

That's why is my question about the 5sec straight flight to after that waste of energy go for the homing head position flight. see my last track.

 

what is wrong with that?

 

1- during that first 5sec straight flight the target is moving out from the head seeker angle trajectory.

2- add extra turn, waste of energy.

 

PS: to replicate that. make a launch with 45 degrees from target.

Edited August 19, 2020 by pepin1234

[Ironhand]

...

 

1) It is only for the rocket pods and not for any other weapon?

2) Once you have launched any rocket pod empty, the light will lit up and you can just press it and all empty pods are ejected?

1: Yes.

2: The source text uses the plural launchers. While it doesn’t specify beyond that, I suspect that it illuminates once all pods are empty. Only jettisoning one would create more imbalance than necessary.

 

 

 

1) Is this now the in-game "LA override" feature?

2) Does this mean that you are required to set manually the target distance (estimation)?

3) Sounds to be only for a missiles when you have a lock, but you can't solve the range?

1: Close enough, I guess.

2, 3: It’s for when there is no range information. The text notes elsewhere that, in setting it to “manual” the probability of destroying the target is reduced. ( :) You think?)

 

 

1) This sounds to be the in-game feature "LA override" feature for R-27ET that you can launch it without a lock? So you would select R-27ET and then flip this switch to launch it when you can not have a lock.

1: Again, perhaps. It’s for an “emergency” launch where you need to dispose of it. Presumably you would not have yet cooled the seeker head. So there would be no danger of it accidentally locking onto something.

 

 

 

 

1) This doesn't do anything for the rail adapters, or unguided rockets?

2) Is this "select a station, flip switch to eject" or "select a station, flip a switch, pull a trigger"

3) does it eject all stations or just selected ones?

1: What I wrote is the only description given. So it sounds like the bombs and missiles on that equipment. Should we ever get a click-pit Su-27, we may know more.

2, 3: My guess is you select the station and “flip” the switch. It’s a pressure switch, so it’s something you flip accidentally. I doubt there is any additional action taken. But I could, of course, be wrong.

 

...

 

So only for the missile type selection (BVR/WVR) without any changes to targeting modes or so?

That’s how I read it. Although not explicitly stated, it almost sounds as if Close-Range Combat switch position selects the R-73s on the two outer pylons on each wing, since those stations are not selectable using the throttle block button.

 

 

 

Does the "change weapon" button switch between the kind (T or R of R-27) of missiles of same type (all being a BVR weapons) and it is automatically selected which side or station is used for that type?

It doesn’t specify. But my guess is that, if the station the Long-Range Combat switch position defaults to isn’t the type you want, you use this to select the station that has it. There’s probably more to it but that’s my present understanding.

 

 

...

 

 

 

So likely any source over datalink that has "higher authority" than the aircraft programmed to be (from the right side)?

That’s a fair appraisal, I think.

 

 

 

So it is the "Boresight" mode, like with R-60 or R-73 in a Su-25?

Exactly. For some reason, I couldn’t come up with the term “boresight” last night.

 

 

 

Thanks for your time.

NP

[pepin1234]

after today update the track show worst result. all missiles missed. R-27ER seem to go even more to chaff CM. Also seem they tuned the way F-18 behave doing 360 turns and weird things.

 

Seem They didn't improve anything as announced. as track show a downgraded R-27 performance in general.

 

remarkable on this situation Aim-120 show the same result as expected but R-27 much worst.

 

see track:

R-27ET on the face-8.trk

[GGTharos]

after today update the track show worst result. all missiles missed. R-27ER seem to go even more to chaff CM.

 

ECCM is under discussion, so that is good. While Chizh said he does not intend to change it, I personally intend to try and convince him to tighten it up a bit.

 

Seem They didn't improve anything as announced. as track show a downgraded R-27 performance in general.

The current improvement is for flight dynamics only.

 

 

A single test is not enough to show that the missile is worse than before. The guidance and ECCM are the same as before, only how the missile flies has changed.

Edited August 20, 2020 by GGTharos

[pepin1234]

ECCM is under discussion, so that is good. While Chizh said he does not intend to change it, I personally intend to try and convince him to tighten it up a bit.

 

What such a powerful person you are that you request your personal desire to a DCS producer. You request weakness for R-27 in chaff condition but you don't request ECM implementation for screw Aim-120. And it is exactly what we got. :doh: After all your opinion is that ''that is good''

Edited August 20, 2020 by pepin1234

[GGTharos]

What such a powerful person you are that you request your personal desire to a DCS producer. You request weakness for R-27 in chaff condition but you don't request ECM implementation for screw Aim-120. And it is exactly what we got. :doh: After all your opinion is that ''that is good''

 

 

You have no idea what it is that you're talking about.

[SgtPappy]

What such a powerful person you are that you request your personal desire to a DCS producer. You request weakness for R-27 in chaff condition but you don't request ECM implementation for screw Aim-120. And it is exactly what we got. :doh: After all your opinion is that ''that is good''

 

I think he's trying to help you here Pepin... but oh well

[pepin1234]

You have no idea what it is that you're talking about.

 

Please read again my previous post. I did a test with same track and Aim-120 performed the same after update. Not the same for R-27. Not a single R-27 hit. So I will keep doing some test. So basically what I wanted to tell you is not going well after all. Not for R-27R, R-27T keep very bad as before.

 

But..but... I need to confirm they also improved the F-18 behave to a more realistic combat profile. Such I am ok about. I can adapt myself for that AI. I have some pictures about that.

Edited August 20, 2020 by pepin1234

[pepin1234]

Here some interesting pictures about what have been change in comparison with the previous DCS update. Same track, same situation with different results. I cant tell right now how exactly performs R-27 in comparison because AI did a different maneuver after update and that impact a lot the final result. So I want to share with you this detail. The 360 turns on counter attack is a move made by humans. In this case we got AI doing a second move after runaway. So good by ED with this AI regard.

 

first picture all remain almost the same. At same time frame.

 

 

Second picture. AI try a Notch move instead keep pushing. See 90 degrees. Same time frame.

 

 

Here the Hits doesn't happen and AI F-18 go in 360 to after that come back for next attack. Same time frame

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by pepin1234

[Fri13]

R-27ER seem to go even more to chaff CM.

 

One thing that I don't get, is that the weapons control panel at the left console will allow pilot to select the priority sensor, that makes the another sensor secondary. Meaning both IRST and Radar are all operative continually but pilot selects which one is the "commanding" one.

With the other switches the pilot will select does a radar emit signals or does the IRST fire laser.

 

IIRC In the manual there is explanation how in BVR combat one can use IRST as primary sensor to find a angular data, where radar is used as secondary sensor for a ranging. And you can guide a R-27 in this mode as a western TWS mode where IRST receives all required information from the target (angular + ranging) for BVR guidance. And only at 15 km or less range the radar will acquire a STT lock. Now, I don't recall that was it that "when missile is estimated at 15 km or less from target" or "when target is 15 km or less from fighter" but it was that target getting attacked with R-27R/ER does not receive Lock or Launch information from R-27R/ER until that 15 km was reached.

(Again, it would anyways be required to get the STT lock for the terminal guidance, so it should be safe to assume it was when estimated missile to be at that range from the target).

 

Another part was as well that there is mention of when IR missile is updated with Range = 0 data when the primary or secondary sensors can not measure range, but they can get a lock-on. That is clearly implication that IR seeker missiles will receive the range data before launch, as otherwise you wouldn't update missile for a 0-range when you can not get the range.

There is as well mentions about R-73 missile requiring a ranging data for the launch, where if the primary or secondary can not find the ranging the LA symbol in HUD will blink and same rate does the HMS reticle and crosshair alternate symbolizing error in the range, solution was to maneuver so that ranging can be achieved. But as the missile can still be launched with reduced change to impact (lack of range information), but one can manually enter the range by using the common method (use the switch in panel for Manual Ranging, dial in throttle to set range and Enter in throttle to accept the manually set range).

 

One of the major keys here in your case is that R-27R/ER is a datalink guided missile. Where the missile should be receiving datalink guidance from the target coordinates through whole flight period, even in the terminal phase where the seeker is itself locked on the target.

 

The Su-27SK was possible be set in the Primary / Secondary guidance channels method such way that Radar system that is only issuing those ranging data, is delivering data to the IRST system that is responsible for missile guidance. So in this case you can be releasing as much chaff you want but the R-27R shouldn't care about them as the IRST is tracking the target angular directions and radar the range data, and datalink updates missile with target angular position as range changes. If the IRST does not get spoofed (and why would it by the chaff?) then you can not get R-27R/ER spoofed by the chaff regardless it is seeing it. As the IRST system is telling where the missile should be flying at.

 

The whole combo in the Su-27S is to have both targeting systems working together, where you need to fool both systems same time to get the R-27R/ER missile off. So if you have a lock on the target with primary and secondary systems (illuminating in the warning panels) then both are assisting each others and target true vector and angular position can be measured.

 

Why R-27R/ER should be almost chaff-proof weapon to be used. Of course if the datalink guidance is stopped when the seeker goes active (and that would be only by estimation of the flight time) and is given priority to decide what target it will go after regardless the launching platform lock-on capabilities and guidance, then you could spoof missile seeker by any means wanted as it is completely autonomic unit and deaf/blind to launching aircraft.

 

So in a such case, IRST would need to receive a false angular direction changes (spoofed by the flares) so that it is transmitting wrong target angular updates to missile, that would need to see a chaff matching to that direction and determine that is a target and go after it.

 

What is now silly that Su-27S weapon system that tracks target with both Primary and Secondary channels, loses an R/ER missile on something that they are not guiding the missile to go at all.

[GGTharos]

Please read again my previous post. I did a test with same track and Aim-120 performed the same after update. Not the same for R-27. Not a single R-27 hit. So I will keep doing some test. So basically what I wanted to tell you is not going well after all. Not for R-27R, R-27T keep very bad as before.

 

But..but... I need to confirm they also improved the F-18 behave to a more realistic combat profile. Such I am ok about. I can adapt myself for that AI. I have some pictures about that.

 

AIM-120 tests are irrelevant in this context. They will always be better. ED will never change this, because it is fact.

With respect to R-27Rs themselves, or rather, all SARH that can be launched by players, ECCM is a well known issue and it is good that it is being discussed right now.

 

So, tests that show that R-27R/ER is too vulnerable to chaff are good, but there is a particular way in which it has to be presented to Chizh.

[GGTharos]

Why R-27R/ER should be almost chaff-proof weapon to be used. Of course if the datalink guidance is stopped when the seeker goes active (and that would be only by estimation of the flight time) and is given priority to decide what target it will go after regardless the launching platform lock-on capabilities and guidance, then you could spoof missile seeker by any means wanted as it is completely autonomic unit and deaf/blind to launching aircraft.

 

The datalink is only available for the phase of flight during which the seeker cannot see the target. The FCS literally turns the DL off well before the missile reaches its target - this signal is generated with a specific time-out and only when the range to target exceeds a certain number, based on target size setting etc.

 

In all cases, Pk goes down when the primary guidance method is not/cannot be used and that obviates any mental gymnastics involved in making claims about some kind of unspoofable SARH missile.

[pepin1234]

.

What is now silly that Su-27S weapon system that tracks target with both Primary and Secondary channels, loses an R/ER missile on something that they are not guiding the missile to go at all.

 

Yes you’re right.

 

Something that make me worry is the R-27ET with 40% less flight performance than his brother R-27ER. When you read official description of both missile you will see about a different of ~5% more in range in favor ER version. Let’s add another 15% less for ET because the guidance is different. That is a total about 20% less range. What we are getting in a combat starting launches from 35km is about 40% less energy in range for ET. The difference is too big. Every weakness you find in description for everything you will find in game twice. And then we must see people coming here telling something is a fact en bla bla bla.

Edited August 20, 2020 by pepin1234

[GGTharos]

Yes you’re right.

 

He isn't.

 

Something that make me worry is the R-27ET with 40% less flight performance than his brother R-27ER. When you read official description of both missile you will see about a different of ~5% more in range in favor ER version. Let’s add another 15% less for ET because the guidance is different.

Realize that this is a purely straight-line flight distance, though. It does not involve the seeker or any other variable, only the ability to fly to that distance. In this respect, you lose a bunch of range immediately because the IR seeker is round (more drag) compared to the RF radome which is more aerodynamic.

 

From the guidance perspective, the PN function in the RF seeker can receive and use range and Vc (closure) for PN, but the IR seeker cannot - the ability to add range and closure can make the guidance a lot more efficient simply by limiting the maneuverability of the missile until it gets close. There are other benefits also.

This does not mean that the IR seeker cannot use some form of more advanced PN (like adding a term for target acceleration to the normal of the turn plane), but those two inputs, range and Vc will not be available to it.

 

Every weakness you find in description for everything you will find in game twice. And then we must see people coming here telling something is a fact en bla bla bla.

 

You can deal with real facts or not. That part is up to you. What ED does with the missiles for their own reasons is a different topic.

 

What you can do is stop pretending like everyone is against you when the things you come up with are actually incorrect.

 

You believe that R-27 series performs worse than it should, fine. Leave the rest of the personal BS aside, and read what people have to tell you.

[pepin1234]

@GGTharos if you don’t mind leave this thread clean of personal discussion. I mean at least help the thread with something positive for the question we debate here. All your superiority facts are nonsense. I am sure you can help community with something different than be pissing on the Russian missiles thread continually for 15 years long. A good ice cream, beer, a night club. They are really good stuff can help.

[GGTharos]

@GGTharos if you don’t mind leave this thread clean of personal discussion.

 

You are the one who makes it personal, look at your own posts, including this one you just wrote.

Edited August 20, 2020 by GGTharos

[pepin1234]

You are the one who makes it personal, look at your own posts, including this one you just wrote.

 

For 16 year long.... Come on GGTharos we also have the right to discuss some issues in harmony. The superiority facts and all your antagonist behavior for all Russian in Russian thread is nonsense in a forum with a lot of diversity. Just try it better

Edited August 20, 2020 by pepin1234

[Ironhand]

One thing that I don't get, is that the weapons control panel at the left console will allow pilot to select the priority sensor, that makes the another sensor secondary. Meaning both IRST and Radar are all operative continually but pilot selects which one is the "commanding" one.

With the other switches the pilot will select does a radar emit signals or does the IRST fire laser.

 

IIRC In the manual there is explanation how in BVR combat one can use IRST as primary sensor to find a angular data, where radar is used as secondary sensor for a ranging. And you can guide a R-27 in this mode as a western TWS mode where IRST receives all required information from the target (angular + ranging) for BVR guidance. And only at 15 km or less range the radar will acquire a STT lock. Now, I don't recall that was it that "when missile is estimated at 15 km or less from target" or "when target is 15 km or less from fighter" but it was that target getting attacked with R-27R/ER does not receive Lock or Launch information from R-27R/ER until that 15 km was reached.

(Again, it would anyways be required to get the STT lock for the terminal guidance, so it should be safe to assume it was when estimated missile to be at that range from the target)...

 

This is what it says:

 

When the leading channel is controlled by the Optical-Electronic System (the mode switch of the Armament Control System is set to IRST) the Optical-Electronic Targeting System outputs the target’s angular coordinates to the Search and Track Radar Aiming Complex.

 

At the same time, the Search and Track Radar Aiming Complex transitions into Quasi-Survey mode (КВО-КВази Обзора) and periodically outputs range information to the Optical-Electronic System, the Optical Lock (ЗАХВ ОЛС) indicator illuminates on the warning display panel, and the (radar) Illumination (ИЗЛ) symbol should be displayed on the HUD.

 

When the range becomes less than 15 km, the Search and Track Radar Aiming Complex transitions from Quasi-Survey mode to (Attack with) Continuous Direction Guidance (РНП) mode [the West’s STT mode]. The Optical-Electronic Targeting System receives range information, while on the display panel the Radar Lock, Optical Lock, and Range Measurement indicators illuminate. At the same time, the Illumination (ИЗЛ) symbol glows continuously on the HUD.

[GGTharos]

For 16 year long.... Come on GGTharos we also have the right to discuss some issues in harmony. The superiority facts and all your antagonist behavior for all Russian in Russian thread is nonsense in a forum with a lot of diversity. Just try it better

 

You're still making it personal.

[Ironhand]

...

 

Another part was as well that there is mention of when IR missile is updated with Range = 0 data when the primary or secondary sensors can not measure range, but they can get a lock-on. That is clearly implication that IR seeker missiles will receive the range data before launch, as otherwise you wouldn't update missile for a 0-range when you can not get the range.

There is as well mentions about R-73 missile requiring a ranging data for the launch, where if the primary or secondary can not find the ranging the LA symbol in HUD will blink and same rate does the HMS reticle and crosshair alternate symbolizing error in the range, solution was to maneuver so that ranging can be achieved. But as the missile can still be launched with reduced change to impact (lack of range information), but one can manually enter the range by using the common method (use the switch in panel for Manual Ranging, dial in throttle to set range and Enter in throttle to accept the manually set range).

...

Just realized what you were referring to above. It concerns close-range missile combat in which the target is visually acquired.

 

Just to verify, the text is below:

 

“ Full instrument support in Close-Range Missile Combat is made possible by range measurements provided by either the Laser Rangefinder or the Radar Aiming Complex (with the appropriate switch setting-OLS or RADAR-selected).

 

When the Armament Control Panel is operating with incomplete instrument support in Close-Range Missile Combat (a situation in which the visually acquired target is locked with the OPTICAL, HELMET, or VERTICAL modes), a range of zero is automatically entered (the current range arrow points to zero), the missile is automatically issued R(ange)=0, and the Armament Control System is set to the allowed launch range.

 

When using the R-73E missile with incomplete instrument support in Close-Range Missile Combat, the Armament Control System may issue the instruction НОП (Invalid Targeting Error). When this occurs, the Launch Authorized symbol on the HUD will flash or, if using the Helmet Aiming System, its aiming rings and crosshairs will flash alternately. Fly the aircraft in a way which removes the error.

 

Given the presence of an invalid targeting error, an R-73E missile can still be launched. However, in doing so, the likelihood of hitting the target is reduced.

 

In Short-range Missile Combat you can also enter the range manually using the method stated previously.

 

With incomplete weapon support and the onboard cannon selected, PREDICTED TRACK (ПРОГНОЗ-ДОРОЖКА) is the aiming method used.

 

In this mode, range can be estimated by comparing the size of the visible target to the gun funnel mouth; the widest (upper) part roughly corresponds to 200 m, while the narrowest (lower) part roughly corresponds to 600 m for target widths of less than 30 m. Increase the range by 100 m for every 10 m increase in target width. (For example, with a target base of 30-40 m the widest part of the funnel corresponds to 300 m, while the narrowest would correspond to 700 m.)”

[GGTharos]

So this range entry is for computing the DLZ?

[Ironhand]

So this range entry is for computing the DLZ?

 

It would seem so. With the goal of generating the Launch Authorized cue.

[Seaeagle]

One thing that I don't get, is that the weapons control panel at the left console will allow pilot to select the priority sensor, that makes the another sensor secondary. Meaning both IRST and Radar are all operative continually but pilot selects which one is the "commanding" one.

With the other switches the pilot will select does a radar emit signals or does the IRST fire laser.

 

IIRC In the manual there is explanation how in BVR combat one can use IRST as primary sensor to find a angular data, where radar is used as secondary sensor for a ranging. And you can guide a R-27 in this mode as a western TWS mode where IRST receives all required information from the target (angular + ranging) for BVR guidance. And only at 15 km or less range the radar will acquire a STT lock. Now, I don't recall that was it that "when missile is estimated at 15 km or less from target" or "when target is 15 km or less from fighter" but it was that target getting attacked with R-27R/ER does not receive Lock or Launch information from R-27R/ER until that 15 km was reached.

(Again, it would anyways be required to get the STT lock for the terminal guidance, so it should be safe to assume it was when estimated missile to be at that range from the target).

 

You are not reading this correctly.

 

When the WCS is operating with EOS as primary sensor and radar as secondary, the radar is basically off(not emitting) except occasionally for range meassurement(if set to do so). You cannot guide(provide miscourse guidance) to an in-flight R-27R unless the radar is operating - this information is only sent to the missile by the radar when its tracking the target in STT mode and "illuminating" the target for it.

 

So there is no magic stealth BVR capability involved and in regards to R-27R deployment, the only difference between cooperative mode and the normal procedure is that you can "prep" the radar with EOS angular coordinates, but as soon as you launch the missile, the radar kicks in to provide the missile with course corrections and target illumination.

 

One of the major keys here in your case is that R-27R/ER is a datalink guided missile. Where the missile should be receiving datalink guidance from the target coordinates through whole flight period, even in the terminal phase where the seeker is itself locked on the target.

 

It only receives course corrections(datalink) when the radar is operating and only for a portion of the flight, which BTW is limited to some 25 km from the launching aircraft - it does not react to datalink corrections once it has the target acquired by itself.....there is a reason why the missile has an onboard seekerhead.

 

The Su-27SK was possible be set in the Primary / Secondary guidance channels method such way that Radar system that is only issuing those ranging data, is delivering data to the IRST system that is responsible for missile guidance.

 

The IRST cannot guide anything - it dosen't emit anything....thats why its "stealthy". As the helmet sight, its meant for cueing IR missile seekers with angular target coordiantes as an alternative to radar cueing.

 

So in this case you can be releasing as much chaff you want but the R-27R shouldn't care about them as the IRST is tracking the target angular directions and radar the range data, and datalink updates missile with target angular position as range changes. If the IRST does not get spoofed (and why would it by the chaff?) then you can not get R-27R/ER spoofed by the chaff regardless it is seeing it. As the IRST system is telling where the missile should be flying at.

 

Nonsense - aside from the hogwash about the IRST guiding the missile, the fact is that the R-27R itself is only suseptable to chaff when the SARH seeker is operating and acquiring the target - at which point its no longer under datalink guidance.

 

The whole combo in the Su-27S is to have both targeting systems working together, where you need to fool both systems same time to get the R-27R/ER missile off. So if you have a lock on the target with primary and secondary systems (illuminating in the warning panels) then both are assisting each others and target true vector and angular position can be measured.

 

The point in the "combo" is to have two different sensors on target, so that if the primary one looses lock, the secondary one can take over - if your radar gets jammed by ECM the EOS can take over as it won't or if your EOS looses lock due to changing target aspect, clouds the sun or whatever that can interfere with an IR sensor, the radar can take over as it won't be affected by the same things.

 

Why R-27R/ER should be almost chaff-proof weapon to be used.

 

:no: