AUTO FCS vs Emergency FCS

[[PTF]Ali]

I have confusion about EFCS and Auto FCS mode on JF-17,

 

On Auto mode it never pull more than 6G even it is auto, shouldn't it work like EFCS to pull high G on JF-17 at high speed like F16? Auto mode don't work, How auto FCS make sense if there is EFCS? I always use EFCS to pull high G maneuvers like Split S. Is this Auto mode is Work in progress?

 

I have seen many JF-17 airshow, He is flying at high speed but still pulling enough G? Is that really implemented in DCS JF-17? Is this system is smart like f16 fly by wire?

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by AliPG

[AeriaGloria]

You have Mach .85 speed limit on 8G you know, above that only 6G, airframe structure is limited. Flanker, Fulcrum, Eurofighter have similar limits on max G, transonic turbulence is really hard on the structure

 

EFCS is like a landing law, only use for emergency

[[PTF]Ali]

You have Mach .85 speed limit on 8G you know, above that only 6G, airframe structure is limited. Flanker, Fulcrum, Eurofighter have similar limits on max G, transonic turbulence is really hard on the structure

 

EFCS is like a landing law, only use for emergency

 

Airframe of jf-17 ka easily pull more than 9Gs on EFCS mode at more than Mach 1, Only problem with this system is that you have to manually enable it to EFCS to pull high Gs, I'm imagining, is this system is implemented correct? Cause on Auto FCS it should automatically turn on EFCS when at high speed, I'm curious to know, It is so annoying manually selecting Auto FCS and EFCS all the time in combat, May be Flight model is not complete but i guess with all my perceptions like F16, Auto mode should enable and disable EFCS all the time at high speed and low speed,

Edited August 19, 2020 by AliPG

[AeriaGloria]

Airframe of jf-17 ka easily pull more than 9Gs on EFCS mode at more than Mach 1, Only problem with this system is that you have to manually enable it to EFCS to pull high Gs, I'm imagining, is this system is implemented correct? Cause on Auto FCS it should automatically turn on EFCS when at high speed, I'm curious to know, It is so annoying manually selecting Auto FCS and EFCS all the time in combat, May be Flight model is not complete but i guess with all my perceptions like F16, Auto mode should enable and disable EFCS all the time at high speed and low speed,

 

If you read the manual Ali, it’s correct, and explained about half way through

 

EFCS is for emergencies, stands for Emergency Flight Control System, emphasis on emergency. if you want to fly it like it’s meant to be flown don’t use it to pull G.

 

Just because it can do 9G in EFCS at high speed and high Q, doesn’t mean you should. It’s limited to 6G at transonic speed for a reason, airframe structural integrity, just like Flanker/Fulcrum/Eurofighter.

 

So go ahead and pull 9G, but you will be very close to breaking the plane, and with no G limiter in EFCS it’s very possible to over G and break it.

 

FM is very complete, and there is absolutely no reason at all for EFCS to turn on at high speed.

 

If you don’t like that it’s structurally limited to 6G at those speeds because of transonic turbulence impacting the structure, the best way to fix it is to ask Chengdu and have them make a brand new plane. They are the only ones that can fix it.

 

Just because F-16 has no such limitations, does not mean these limits are incorrect for JF-17.

 

Let’s say you still want to use EFCS to overcome G limit, well congratulations it’s limited to 12.5 degrees a second pitch rate, good luck winning any fights like that

Edited August 19, 2020 by AeriaGloria

[paco2002]

Airframe of jf-17 ka easily pull more than 9Gs on EFCS mode at more than Mach 1, Only problem with this system is that you have to manually enable it to EFCS to pull high Gs, I'm imagining, is this system is implemented correct? Cause on Auto FCS it should automatically turn on EFCS when at high speed, I'm curious to know, It is so annoying manually selecting Auto FCS and EFCS all the time in combat, May be Flight model is not complete but i guess with all my perceptions like F16, Auto mode should enable and disable EFCS all the time at high speed and low speed,

I think everything you said is wrong, the JF-17 only reches 8G, below M0.85. Above that is limited to 6G. If you use EFCS to reach 9G at Mach 1, you will overstress the wings, and after a couple of high G turns, it will break. So, leave it on AUTO FCS ALL the time, and if you have some FCS failure, use EFCS and go back base inmediatly

[AeriaGloria]

To add on, it has nothing to do with how smart the system is. The system is giving the most G it can while staying safe

[[PTF]Ali]

I think everything you said is wrong, the JF-17 only reches 8G, below M0.85. Above that is limited to 6G. If you use EFCS to reach 9G at Mach 1, you will overstress the wings, and after a couple of high G turns, it will break. So, leave it on AUTO FCS ALL the time, and if you have some FCS failure, use EFCS and go back base inmediatly

 

I never had any kind of failure even with full air to air loadout, I use it in BVR engagement when you need instant high G and successfully initiate Split S, Although JF-17 can break wings i know but 1.2 mach is safe, but you need to be mach 1.4 or 1.6 to break wings, For Air to Air it is safe to use, I have 1000 hours on JF-17 never had a problem.

[paco2002]

I never had any kind of failure even with full air to air loadout, I use it in BVR engagement when you need instant high G and successfully initiate Split S, Although JF-17 can break wings i know but 1.2 mach is safe, but you need to be mach 1.4 or 1.6 to break wings, For Air to Air it is safe to use, I have 1000 hours on JF-17 never had a problem.

Then you have 1000 on a plane that you don't know how to use it properly

[paco2002]

I never had any kind of failure even with full air to air loadout, I use it in BVR engagement when you need instant high G and successfully initiate Split S, Although JF-17 can break wings i know but 1.2 mach is safe, but you need to be mach 1.4 or 1.6 to break wings, For Air to Air it is safe to use, I have 1000 hours on JF-17 never had a problem.

By loading the plane with 9Gs at mach 1.2 your bleeding ALL your speed, and stressing the whole plane unnecesarily. If you let your AUTO FCS, you will have 6Gs and beter speed retention, wich will let you do a better Split S. So please, use the plane properly and stop doing that kind of things.

[AeriaGloria]

No one can stop you from using it, if you enjoy that kind of thing okay. But no real pilot would probably even consider doing this to bypass the G limiter. It slows down so many things, you can’t possibly sustain those G at the speeds required(as you said you must be well over Mach 1 and not so high up to make 12.5 degrees per second equal to more then 6G), and the most important being safety.

 

I guess the point is, this is a limitation of this aircraft, a limitation that is not even unique to this plane in this game, and part of the simulation of learning how to fight and fly in it is learning and getting around those limitations.

 

If you want to focus on bypassing it’s hard G limits with an emergency mode that is only going to increase your G at the highest speeds and lowest altitudes for a short period of time while slowing down all your other inputs, then go ahead. But what a fighter pilot would do I’m sure is learn the drawbacks, how to get around it, how it could be used against them, how to fight so the enemy can’t take advantage of it. Those are things I believe always apply to fighting in any platform in real life or a game, and even outside of realism there are some limits you have to come to to terms with and deal with in order to be successful fighting.

 

As you practice you will realize it’s not so bad, just don’t get wrapped into a high speed low altitude diving fight. It is only a limit at low altitudes, at medium to high altitudes you will rarely if ever be sustaining 6G. Medium altitude is also where SD-10 is optimized, so in slot of scenarios the G limit won’t even be that much of a factor.

 

Now in BFM, it’s just like any plane, precise speed control. You will quickly learn when to keep your speed low enough so that you can quickly get below Mach .85, such as before a merge.

 

I don’t think it’s safe to use, or even useful if used safely, and I would never recommend someone to do it as anything other then as a curiosity of how the FCS works. I don’t think it’s a wise tactic to use to fight in it even from an air quake/meta perspective. However if you have fun with it go ahead, but if you end up with broken wings or can’t pull enough G at slow speed I warned you;)

Edited August 19, 2020 by AeriaGloria

[[PTF]Ali]

No one can stop you from using it, if you enjoy that kind of thing okay. But no real pilot would probably even consider doing this to bypass the G limiter. It slows down so many things, you can’t possibly sustain those G at the speeds required(as you said you must be well over Mach 1 and not so high up to make 12.5 degrees per second equal to more then 6G), and the most important being safety.

 

I guess the point is, this is a limitation of this aircraft, a limitation that is not even unique to this plane in this game, and part of the simulation of learning how to fight and fly in it is learning and getting around those limitations.

 

If you want to focus on bypassing it’s hard G limits with an emergency mode that is only going to increase your G at the highest speeds and lowest altitudes for a short period of time while slowing down all your other inputs, then go ahead. But what a fighter pilot would do I’m sure is learn the drawbacks, how to get around it, how it could be used against them, how to fight so the enemy can’t take advantage of it. Those are things I believe always apply to fighting in any platform in real life or a game, and even outside of realism there are some limits you have to come to to terms with and deal with in order to be successful fighting.

 

As you practice you will realize it’s not so bad, just don’t get wrapped into a high speed low altitude diving fight. It is only a limit at low altitudes, at medium to high altitudes you will rarely if ever be sustaining 6G. Medium altitude is also where SD-10 is optimized, so in slot of scenarios the G limit won’t even be that much of a factor.

 

Now in BFM, it’s just like any plane, precise speed control. You will quickly learn when to keep your speed low enough so that you can quickly get below Mach .85, such as before a merge.

 

I don’t think it’s safe to use, or even useful if used safely, and I would never recommend someone to do it as anything other then as a curiosity of how the FCS works. I don’t think it’s a wise tactic to use to fight in it even from an air quake/meta perspective. However if you have fun with it go ahead, but if you end up with broken wings or can’t pull enough G at slow speed I warned you;)

 

 

Yup its true, Thanks for huge explaination lol