KAB-500kr?

[britgliderpilot]

I think I got the designation right . . . .

 

 

Do we get TV-guided bombs for the Su25T in v1.1?

 

Mmmn . . . . precision strike . . . . love it.

[Alfa]

Hi Britglider,

 

Yes you got the designation right, and yes you will be able to drop TV guided KAB-500kr´s as well as launching Kh-29T from the Su-25T :)

 

These are the weapons I personally prefer for stationary targets, as they are "fire & forget" and unlike laser guided weapons dont require laser lock prior to launch nor contious laser illumination of target after launch....you dont need the laser at all :)

 

This makes them alot easier to deploy, as you are restricted neither by laser range nor by laser time-out.....i.e. you dont have to time your laser activation to avoid having it shut down on you while your weapon is on route to target, and the Kh-29T can be launched from longer range than the Kh-29L....this means that if you have two targets in close proximity of each other, you can take out both in a single pass.

 

But for mobile targets, the(laser guided) Vikhr is the weapon of choice :)

[Mayh3M]

Alfa

Do you mean, that TV-guided missles have no ability to follow moving targets, like Mavericks do (or even Mavericks too) ?? :?:

[Mechanist]

Hi Alfa!

 

I have got a question:

Is the "ordinary" laser guided KAB-500 integrated on the Su-25T?

 

I think too, the "Kr" is more useful than the laser guided one ,but i think ,with a laser guided stuff is more risky to hit the target, than with a fire-and-forget weapon.

And for me, risk=challenge, challenge=fun :P

[DropZone]

I've also got a couple of questions about the KAB-500kr and the Kh-29T in the game. Firstly - if they are TV guided, does this mean that they can't be used at night? Secondly, can the laser-guided versions of these weapons (i.e. the KAB-500 and the Kh-29L) also be carried by the Su-25T? It'd seem a bit strange if they can't, especially if the TV guided versions don't work at night. However, if the Su-25T can't carry them in real life for some reason, then I guess it shouldn't be able to in the game either.

 

edit: Oops, I just noticed that the Flaming Cliffs website says that the Su-25T can carry the Kh-29L. It doesn't mention the laser guided KAB-500, though.

[britgliderpilot]

Hi Alfa!

 

I have got a question:

Is the "ordinary" laser guided KAB-500 integrated on the Su-25T?

 

I think too, the "Kr" is more useful than the laser guided one ,but i think ,with a laser guided stuff is more risky to hit the target, than with a fire-and-forget weapon.

And for me, risk=challenge, challenge=fun :P

 

Good question - the Su25T does obviously have the laser designator . . . .

 

 

I'm looking forward to the TV-guided bombs, though. Precision strike . . . and with that 23x camera, you can do it from a halfway realistic (and safe)altitude, too.

[Alfa]

Alfa

Do you mean, that TV-guided missles have no ability to follow moving targets, like Mavericks do (or even Mavericks too) ?? :?:

 

Well it is not a question of guidance method, but the Kh-29 missile(laser as well as TV guided version) not being able to chase down a moving target :) .

 

As it is now, when designating a moving target with the Shkval TV, you will get no launch authorization for the Kh-29T - with the Kh-29L you will when switching on the laser designator, but the missile will most likely miss the target.

 

But even if it could be used against moving targets, I would still pick the Vikhr for these....

 

Apart from the Su-25T only being able to carry two Kh-29 missiles(TV or laser guided) and these being something of an "overkill" for a ground vehicle, with the AFM, weight distribution is modelled accurately and releasing a heavy weapon from one wing will cause the plane to roll quite violently to the opposite side upon launch....requiring stick input and adjustment of trim to counter it. The Vikhrs are much lighter and the effect is hardly noticeable - you can follow a moving column on the Shkval TV while launching missiles at it from a stable platform without having to counter the weight offset after each launch. :)

[Alfa]

Hi Alfa!

 

I have got a question:

Is the "ordinary" laser guided KAB-500 integrated on the Su-25T?

 

No the KAB-500L is not available for the Su-25T.

 

The reason is that the aircraft has no means of providing target illumination for it....since the weapon is laser guided, it requires the target to be illuminated until impact, and the aircraft will quite simply "overtake" the bomb as it glides towards target, and thereby not being able to keep the laser designator on target long enough for the bomb to have something to home on.

 

This would require the aircraft to carrry a special device capable of moving the laser beam straight downwards and behind the aircraft as the aircraft passes over the target, but AFAIK no such device exists in the Russian inventory.

 

The only other solution would be a FAC feature - i.e. where the target is lased by an external source on the ground.

[Alfa]

I've also got a couple of questions about the KAB-500kr and the Kh-29T in the game. Firstly - if they are TV guided, does this mean that they can't be used at night?

 

No TV guided weapons cannot be used at night - their TV seekers cannot see in the dark - nor can the generic TV camera of the Shkval system, so for night time missions, the solution is a combination of the Mercury LLTV pod and laser guided missiles :)

 

Secondly, can the laser-guided versions of these weapons (i.e. the KAB-500 and the Kh-29L) also be carried by the Su-25T? It'd seem a bit strange if they can't, especially if the TV guided versions don't work at night. However, if the Su-25T can't carry them in real life for some reason, then I guess it shouldn't be able to in the game either.

 

The Su-25T can deploy the following laser guided weapons:

 

- S-25L

- Kh-25ML

- Kh-29L

- Vikhr

 

But not the KAB-500L for the reason explained in the above post :)

[Chizh]

Alfa all has told very well. I want to add, that the laser-television targeting system which supports laser guided bombs is "Kaira". This device is mounted onto the Su-24M and the MiG-27K aircrafts.

[Alfa]

Oops :oops:

 

Ok.....so the device does exist in the Russian inventory 8)

 

Just not compatible with for the Su-25T :)

[Han]

2 Mayh3M:

ТВ ГСН Х-29Т и КАБ-500Кр (а ГСН у них одинаковые) предназначены для поражения защищенных и замаскированных зданий и сооружений.

ГСН ракеты запоминает изображение окружения цели (деревья, кусты и пр.) и целится в него, в чем ей не должны мешать проезжающие мимо машинки ;)

 

Но с кораблями другое дело - их окружение монотонно (вода), а сами они большие и обладают характерными контурами.

Т.о. ТВ ГСН будет сопровождать именно корабль, но отрабатывать маневр цели система управления не предназначена, поэтому если морская цель скоростная, то ракета будет пытаться на нее наводится, но с большой вероятностью ляжет за кормой.

 

По поводу перебалансировки при пуске тяжелых и средних ракет , о которой говорил Альфа:

Грамотное использование режима стабилизации угловых положений и режима коррекции автопилота позволяют не забивать себе голову этими проблемами.

[Han]

TV seeker of Kh-29T missile and KAB-500Kr guided bomb is designed to home on the target location (by the ambient - trees, roads, grass and ect...), it is necessary to destroy the masked targets.

This means that TV seeker can't lock small vechicles, they allways will lock the ambient of the vechicle and home on the terrain point where vechicle was in the launch moment.

 

But the ship - is another situation.

Ship's ambient is uniform (the water surface) and the ship is big and distinguished.

TV seeker will track the ship, but the missile guideance system is not designed to track rapidly moving targets - if ship will have much speed then the missile will hit beyound the stern of the ship.

[Mechanist]

No the KAB-500L is not available for the Su-25T.

 

The reason is that the aircraft has no means of providing target illumination for it....since the weapon is laser guided, it requires the target to be illuminated until impact, and the aircraft will quite simply "overtake" the bomb as it glides towards target, and thereby not being able to keep the laser designator on target long enough for the bomb to have something to home on.

 

Yes this is my first thought too :)

 

But I've read somewhere about this engagement method:

If you have two Mig-27 with KAB-500L, the only way you can use the bombs is: the leader of the Mig-27s drop the bomb near the target and the wingman designate the target for the leaders bomb. The distance between the 2 Migs have to be at least 2-3 kms. The in the next pass the wingman drop the bomb and the leader designate the target and so on...

 

It must be hard to modell, and i know, it is impossible to count this feature in the Lock-On 1.1 (because the shortage of time),but in the next addon should be in this feature.

[britgliderpilot]

Yes this is my first thought too :)

 

But I've read somewhere about this engagement method:

If you have two Mig-27 with KAB-500L, the only way you can use the bombs is: the leader of the Mig-27s drop the bomb near the target and the wingman designate the target for the leaders bomb. The distance between the 2 Migs have to be at least 2-3 kms. The in the next pass the wingman drop the bomb and the leader designate the target and so on...

 

It must be hard to modell, and i know, it is impossible to count this feature in the Lock-On 1.1 (because the shortage of time),but in the next addon should be in this feature.

 

One aircraft lasing a target for another to drop on?

 

 

Ooooh . . . . I think I just wet myself . . .

 

Oh, the MP possibilities . . . .

[EricJ]

As it is now, when designating a moving target with the Shkval TV, you will get no launch authorization for the Kh-29T - with the Kh-29L you will when switching on the laser designator, but the missile will most likely miss the target.

 

But even if it could be used against moving targets, I would still pick the Vikhr for these....

 

Apart from the Su-25T only being able to carry two Kh-29 missiles(TV or laser guided) and these being something of an "overkill" for a ground vehicle, with the AFM, weight distribution is modelled accurately and releasing a heavy weapon from one wing will cause the plane to roll quite violently to the opposite side upon launch....requiring stick input and adjustment of trim to counter it. The Vikhrs are much lighter and the effect is hardly noticeable - you can follow a moving column on the Shkval TV while launching missiles at it from a stable platform without having to counter the weight offset after each launch. :)

 

Plus you got more in case you missed. Of course, doing this requires proper leading techniques. It'll probably take a couple or few missiles, but it's all about timing..

[Avimimus]

Alfa all has told very well. I want to add, that the laser-television targeting system which supports laser guided bombs is "Kaira". This device is mounted onto the Su-24M and the MiG-27K aircrafts.

 

So we're getting the Su-24 next, right? ;) ...

[Avimimus]

Yes this is my first thought too :)

 

But I've read somewhere about this engagement method:

If you have two Mig-27 with KAB-500L, the only way you can use the bombs is: the leader of the Mig-27s drop the bomb near the target and the wingman designate the target for the leaders bomb. The distance between the 2 Migs have to be at least 2-3 kms. The in the next pass the wingman drop the bomb and the leader designate the target and so on...

 

It must be hard to modell, and i know, it is impossible to count this feature in the Lock-On 1.1 (because the shortage of time),but in the next addon should be in this feature.

 

It would be nice to see such a feature. It would allow an interesting set of tactics.

[Mechanist]

I've found an interesting picture:

A KAB-500L under the right inner pylon.