R27ET Data link

[S77th-konkussion]

Ahh, just shoot the G0D D^%ned missile already! :joystick:

 

One thing is for sure you will win or lose every time.;)

 

Out

 

 

.

[monotwix]

The AIM-9 is one of the if not THE worst, and easiest to evade missile in LOMAC.

 

You have to be slow or unable to pull more than a few g's, out of flares, or in a protracted in-plane maneuver to be hit by one.

 

There's loads of empirical proof for that one ...

The 120 is pretty poor at its job too. The 7 just barely get a 10% Pk when chaff's in the air.

 

Are we playing the same game here? We ARE talking about LOFC right?

 

Well I'm not so sure what we are talking about but if you can't see the ET that kills you than the same should stand for AIM-9 and if you read what I've posted earlier today more thoroughly it might just help you with your recollection of what we are talking about.

[GGTharos]

You sure showed me. ;)

[RvEYoda]

aim9 has shorter range than guns in Lo, fact :)

[monotwix]

The proprtion for the us planes in terms of a sim is a litle bodge job.

This is not a highly realistic sim but sophisticated and you'd think hm about the patches.

Quite rightly so.

[Pilotasso]

Ok Guys jus as I promised, the stats from April at 169 (this post will be updated with the winner of that month too)

 

Times total kills by missiles:189

Times F-15 kills: 96 = 50.8%

Times Mig-29 Kills: 87 = 46%

Times Su-27 Kills: 6 = 3.2%

 

These stats are perfect for those who think my results are biased for my excess of F-15 flying compared to other planes. This time I flew practicaly the same F-15 as russian planes.

 

Times total deaths: 30

Times R-27ET deaths: 14 = 46.66%

Times AMRAAM deaths: 3 = 10%

 

Again, R-27ET alone owns PK among all other missiles.

AMRAAM accounts for a pathetic 10% PK. You think saying it kills as much as vietnam era missiles is still an exageration? ;)

 

Now for partial kill ratios:

 

Amount of times death by R-27ET on blue: 7

Amount of times death by AMRAAM on red: 3

 

F-15+Su-27Kills/R-27ET Deaths= 102/7 = 7.3

Mig kill/AMRAAM deaths=87/3 = 29

 

Again R-27ET accounts for more than 3 times as much deaths for blue than AMRAAM does for red.

 

a perfect match for my previous post even though I flew 70% times in F-15 then

 

kill ratios on red (AMRAAM VS R-27ET):

 

Mig kill/R-27ET deaths= 87/7= 6.2

Mig kill/AMRAAM deaths= 87/3= 29

 

The picture gets worse here, ET kills 460% times that of AMRAAM.

Is there always 4.6 Flankers on blue for every F-15? that makes you wonder. ;)

 

 

**************************************************************************************************

 

Will post Black G's stats here, he died alot more times even though he won, wich will be just perfect to analyse.

 

Times total kills by missiles:234

Times F-15 kills: 0 = 0% (this player never flies F-15)

Times Mig-29 Kills: 123 = 52.6%

Times Su-27 Kills: 111 = 47.4%

 

Perfect!! Black G flies for blue almost as he flies for red, like I did in April.

 

Times total deaths: 57

Times R-27ET deaths: 27 = 47.4%

Times AMRAAM deaths: 7 = 12.3%

 

Dont these figures look familiar? :)

 

Partial Kill ratios:

Amount of times death by R-27ET on blue: 16

Amount of times death by AMRAAM on red: 7

 

Su-27Kills/R-27ET Deaths= 123/16 = 7.7

Mig kill/AMRAAM deaths=111/7 = 15.9

 

Black G has been killed twice as much by ET on blue than he was killed by AMRAAM on red.

 

Another interesting fact:

Su-27kill/R-77 deaths= 123/11=11.2

While flying on blue Black G still died more to the ET than against an active missile that is better than the AMRAAM.

 

kill ratios on red (AMRAAM VS R-27ET):

 

Mig kill/R-27ET deaths= 111/16= 6.9

Mig kill/AMRAAM deaths= 111/7= 15.9

 

While on red Black G dies more than 2 times as much for ET as he does for AMRAAM. The picture remains the same no matter the team you choose.

Need I go on? :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Conclusions:

 

BlacK G's Total kill ratio is very different to mine and so can be the choice of planes and teams between us. However all the stats I shown demosntrates similar picture.

What is more extraordinary is the fact you can carry only 2 R-27ET's compared to 4 or 6 of other mixed radar missiles,and 6 or 8 loaded AMRAAM F-15's. Any amount of radar missiles types in the air fades in comparison to the R-27ET.

 

So, no matter what the team and the plane you choose to fly, R-27ET will be responsible by nearly 50% of all of your deaths. The ammount of AMRAAM kills is always very low independently of the number of F-15 flying on blue side. I believe if there would be ONLY F-15's on one side the rate of R-27ET would be the same.

 

This seems to postulate the ED-Vympel's law: "ET's rate shall be constant in LOMAC universe no matter the planes or radar missile choice". :D

 

 

All this makes you wonder how much time one realy has to fly F-15 (or be better than anyone else) in order to get the same ammount of kills as in russian planes.

Another interesting curiosity, that makes R-27ET so lethal that it often results in mutual kills. the vast majority of players has very low kill ratios closing fast on 1:1 as stats time goes on.

 

In combat almost everybody in any russian plane will resort to R-27ET as their primary missile, using radar missiles will result in becoming outgunned by your opposition.

[Shaman]

Conclusion:

People shall spam flares more often.

[Pilotasso]

I would like anyone who has flown and died more than 20 times by missiles online to post their stats. I would like to see you online more often on various servers to put that theory ^^^^^to the test. Do so and then well talk. :)

 

Throwing claims to the air and then do nothing to back that up, is not going to help you much to get those ideas through.

[Frostie]

Its funny you mention ARH maddogs as more dealy because more often than not they give you warning, and the ET never does. I get spammed by AMRAAM's all the time but I find them easy to dodge.

 

Need proof? While on 169 server I have been killed only 4 times by AMRAAM (all of them at point blank range) while R-27ET has gotten me 27 times and counting (on 1 occasion, 7 consecutive times). Also worth mentioning the R-27ER has killed me more times than the AMRAAM did.

 

Alls servers stats support this, and the russian planes are preferred for their heat seekers in detriment of the Eagle.

Your stats don't say whether these ET/ARH kills were maddog or LA shots.

Which makes your case unfounded.

 

Considering the server uses AWACS over mountain terrrain of Sochi - Majkop I'd say the chances of being killed by IR missiles is extremely high (datalink and IR is a fave tactic on this server)

Want proof just look at the amount of R-73 kills.:D

 

Edit: there is not many 73 kills on you , usually because your quite high and an ET in EOS when you turn back in usually suffices.:P

[Pilotasso]

Your stats don't say whether these ET/ARH kills were maddog or LA shots.

 

True, there is no distiction on the stats boards, however, how many times do you think you get maddogged successfully by AMRAAM with so few deaths by it, compared to the shear number of heat seekers? If I browse through my TACVIEW tracks I can spot dozens of heat seekers wich fly straight and then snap into their intended targets.(see pics) However when I put the stats here it was more on the side of proving it thats more lethal missile regardless of being madogged or not.

 

Its a stenuous job to spot count maddogs in the track and much easier to call ignorance to prove this wrong.

 

Considering the server uses AWACS over mountain terrrain of Sochi - Majkop I'd say the chances of being killed by IR missiles is extremely high (datalink and IR is a fave tactic on this server)

Want proof just look at the amount of R-73 kills.:D

 

AWACS just increases the number of mutual kills.

Why? I estimate 90% of the pople who always fly low and shoot over mountains regardless. Awacs just helps eleminate the surprise factor on both sides.

 

A proof of this is that in April AWACS were further appart, then the community demanded better awacs coverage. The misison was adjusted to staisfy the demands. Stats dont show any change of ET kill rate, it just increased the total number of deaths. Thats all.

[Frostie]

My point being with AWACS is it encorages stealth kills which will be the ET as a first choice weapon to do this, so naturally ET's are going to rule the stats board.

But I agree maddog ET's are the worst if you don't see them.

[Pilotasso]

This has got to constitute a record...

 

While I was browsing tracks I realized how long you have to stay alive to miss all those shots with the F-15 without being killed in order to have a decent kill ratio.

Check this one out. Realy funny.

 

Before calculating the AMRAAM kill ratio of this one watch the event slider CAREFULLY :D

(169 server)

 

BEAT THIS!! If you dare.

[Frostie]

50 minutes >25 AMRAAMs and 2 friends dead :D am I right or wrong?

[Pilotasso]

Positively didley right :D

[Geier]

I would like anyone who has flown and died more than 20 times by missiles online to post their stats. I would like to see you online more often on various servers to put that theory ^^^^^to the test. Do so and then well talk. :)

 

Throwing claims to the air and then do nothing to back that up, is not going to help you much to get those ideas through.

You're welcome. Thoug not 20 times but...

I'm flying not very often because I have the summer examinations:)

 

 

Geier

 

 

 

 

 

Air wins13/0

Flying МиГ-29С10

Су-27 2

F-15C 1

 

 

By missiles

Р-77 4

Р-27ЭТ 4

Р-27Т 2

Р-27ЭР 1

AIM-120C 1

Р-73 1

 

 

Enemy planes

Су-25Т 3

МиГ-29С 3

Су-27 3

Су-33 2

F-15C 1

Су-25 1

 

 

 

 

Air defeats5/1

 

Flying

МиГ-29С 4

Су-27 1

By missiles

Р-73 3

Р-27ЭМ 1

cannon 1

Enemy planes

МиГ-29С 4

Су-33 1

 

 

All fired missiles

P-77 13

P-27ЭТ 9

AIM-120 6

P-27ЭР 4

P-73 3

P-27T 2

 

 

http://80.250.162.148/?dir=1&period=all&sort=status&page=2

[Pilotasso]

I cant make sense of any of that...and you expect me to do the math? :D

[Geier]

I cant make sense of any of that...and you expect me to do the math? :D

 

I just wanted to proove my statement that ER is the same as 120 in Lo. By my experience, of course

 

Fired/killed

Р-77 13/4

Р-27ЭТ 9/4

Р-27Т 2/2

Р-27ЭР 4/1

AIM-120C 6/1

Р-73 3/1

 

I was shot down by

 

Р-73 3

Р-27ЭМ 1

cannon 1

 

I fired my ET only after the LA , but it got rather often too close to hit enemy by this mighty missile. In this very case you can see that T is more effective. As for 120/ER you can see that their figures're very close.

[Pilotasso]

When making statistics you have to have alot of data in order to make it statisticaly representative. Thats why I asked for data of people with 20+ plus deaths (wich means at least as many kills).

 

Your list is very small to establish a reliable trend (for example players wont die 20% times to cannon like you), but thanks anyway. :)

 

BTW someone has already made a remark that my partial kill ratios concept is difficult to understand. They mean only each of the players survivability to either the ET or AMRAAM. I chose myself and Black G solely to the purpose that only the 2 of us and few others has flown enough time to have logged in enough deaths from most of the other players.

[GGTharos]

Yes...and the 120 should really have a Pk of about 0.6 ... not 0.16 :P

[Geier]

When making statistics you have to have alot of data in order to make it statisticaly representative. Thats why I asked for data of people with 20+ plus deaths (wich means at least as many kills).

 

Your list is very small to establish a reliable trend (for example players wont die 20% times to cannon like you), but thanks anyway. :)

 

 

 

Ok, may be I'll do the next comparison a bit afterward.

 

2GG

I fired my 120 from the RTR range and that's my statistic. Look at Mustang's 120 fired/killed ratio. The picture will come similar.

[GGTharos]

By Rtr you mean 'Range turn and run' not 'max range', yes?

[Geier]

By Rtr you mean 'Range turn and run' not 'max range', yes?

of course. May be I wrote not correct at 100%, but RTR was at least in 70% of all launches.

Note that there could be the low&slow flyers etc. So I think these figures can take place

[GGTharos]

I understand. The 0.6 Pk is a real-world figure, counting all missile launches and hits, including duplicate missiles (ie. multiple missiles on same target) or missiles launched in poor parameters.

[D-Scythe]

I understand. The 0.6 Pk is a real-world figure, counting all missile launches and hits, including duplicate missiles (ie. multiple missiles on same target) or missiles launched in poor parameters.

 

It might be better to work with the real world combat figures for the AIM-7F/M, as it allows us to work with bigger numbers =/

[Frostie]

Who'd want to buy a US vs 3rd world country sim?