Warthog Throttle "slider" potentiometer

[jonsky7]

Hi,

 

I'm starting to get some jitter on my Warthog throttle fake "friction slider" axis. I use it for zoom in DCS.

 

It's not the LED brightness bug because they're off and have been for some time.

 

Does anyone have a part number for a replacement pot?

 

I've seen this 251B12T104A2NB mentioned once in all of my searches. Can anyone confirm?

 

I'm away from home atm so can't tear down my throttle to look.

 

Thanks

[Vantskruv]

I am not 100% sure, but a user on reddit linked to this pot:

https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/CTS-Electronic-Components/251B12T104A2NB/?qs=6E8igxPflKdliaNMymwp6A==

Edit: It seems to be the same pot as you referenced to.

 

Though, in another thread, I read the TrackIR zoom may be conflicting a little, and when the user turned off zoom in TrackIR, the jitter was all gone.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Vantskruv

[Vantskruv]

Though, I have been thinking maybe to replace the pot myself too. But only if it would be possible to replace it with a more quality pot, i.e. a hall sensor pot, but I have not investigated yet if there exist any compatible ones that fits in both size and specs.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Vantskruv

[Sokol1_br]

14 hours ago, Vantskruv said:

But only if it would be possible to replace it with a more quality pot, i.e. 

 

Theoretically can, but in practice no. Why?

 

- You need an "joystick potentiometer", with limited "effective electric range" on their resistive trail, tipycaly between 30 - 60 º.

 

- Good brands like Spectrol, Bourns, Alps... don't make "joystick pot"*, but conventional models with 270/300º of "effective electric range".

 

*Joystick/gamepad  industry want the more cheap pot possible, not good quality, since these are used more in low cost devices (e.g. HOTAS X) and secondary axes of more expensive controllers (e.g. Warthog throttle slider).

 

The used CTS pot is good enough for the purpose, last good time.

They last little and/or cause problems in T.16000M twist axis, because the plastic mechanism of twist is bad designed and flex the pot case/pole, causing bad contact in wipers.

 

Quote

 i.e. a hall sensor pot,

 

Can use GVL224 MarRez - but will need some DIY for adapt.

 

Or Rel4y Cougar replacement Hall sensor, that is for replace similar pot, these may are plug and play, check their topic there.

 

Bi-Tech 612x series (models with 35 or 60 degrees of "effective electric angle") with 6mm pole may is probable suitable, but will require more DIY than above options.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Sokol1_br

[jonsky7]

On 12/26/2020 at 6:32 AM, Vantskruv said:

I am not 100% sure, but a user on reddit linked to this pot:

https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/CTS-Electronic-Components/251B12T104A2NB/?qs=6E8igxPflKdliaNMymwp6A==

Edit: It seems to be the same pot as you referenced to.

 

Though, in another thread, I read the TrackIR zoom may be conflicting a little, and when the user turned off zoom in TrackIR, the jitter was all gone.

 

 

By zoom axis do you mean the "Headtracker forward/backward" axis? Though I'm pretty confident it's my pot, I can see the values changing by 1 step using https://gamepad-tester.com/

 

On 12/26/2020 at 6:38 AM, Vantskruv said:

Though, I have been thinking maybe to replace the pot myself too. But only if it would be possible to replace it with a more quality pot, i.e. a hall sensor pot, but I have not investigated yet if there exist any compatible ones that fits in both size and specs.

 

 

I've been searching but haven't found anyone who has done it yet, but I posted in the thread started by Rel4y that Sokol1_br mentioned. Some of the sensors he is using in the TM Cougar certainly look similar to the one needed for the warthog.

 

On 12/26/2020 at 8:38 PM, Sokol1_br said:

 

Theoretically can, but in practice no. Why?

 

- You need an "joystick potentiometer", with limited "effective electric range" on their resistive trail, tipycaly between 30 - 60 º.

 

- Good brands like Spectrol, Bourns, Alps... don't make "joystick pot"*, but conventional models with 270/300º of "effective electric range".

 

*Joystick/gamepad  industry want the more cheap pot possible, not good quality, since these are used more in low cost devices (e.g. HOTAS X) and secondary axes of more expensive controllers (e.g. Warthog throttle slider).

 

The used CTS pot is good enough for the purpose, last good time.

They last little and/or cause problems in T.16000M twist axis, because the plastic mechanism of twist is bad designed and flex the pot case/pole, causing bad contact in wipers.

 

 

Can use GVL224 MarRez - but will need some DIY for adapt.

 

Or Rel4y Cougar replacement Hall sensor, that is for replace similar pot, these may are plug and play, check their topic there.

 

Bi-Tech 612x series (models with 35 or 60 degrees of "effective electric angle") with 6mm pole may is probable suitable, but will require more DIY than above options.

 

 

Thanks for this!

[Snowblind]

did you ever get this fixed? my slider pot is doing the same thing, i wonder if there is a way to smooth out the input with software

 

[Snowblind]

so, i fixed it, i had to plug my throttle into a powered hub, and the hub into a usb slot on my mobo. the pot was only jittery when ingame due to 'signal noise' generated by my system under load (3090 and highly OC 8700k), out of game there was no issue, and it happened in multiple games not just DCS so it was not a binding clash. now ive done this the jitter is gone!!!!!

[Scofflaw]

On 1/25/2021 at 12:36 PM, Snowblind said:

so, i fixed it, i had to plug my throttle into a powered hub, and the hub into a usb slot on my mobo. the pot was only jittery when ingame due to 'signal noise' generated by my system under load (3090 and highly OC 8700k), out of game there was no issue, and it happened in multiple games not just DCS so it was not a binding clash. now ive done this the jitter is gone!!!!!

 

Did you have jitter all throughout the axis?   I only get it towards the bottom 20% of the range, and it's driving me crazy.

 

I tried different USB ports, I tried opening it up and trying to blow it out with compressed air, but nothing helped so far.

[jonsky7]

On 6/17/2021 at 12:50 PM, Scofflaw said:

 

Did you have jitter all throughout the axis?   I only get it towards the bottom 20% of the range, and it's driving me crazy.

 

I tried different USB ports, I tried opening it up and trying to blow it out with compressed air, but nothing helped so far.

 

Pretty much yeah, it wasn't a massive amount, I use that slider for zoom axis and the view used to bounce forward and backward like one step at any point other than the centre detent, but it was annoying.

Rel4y did make me a hall effect sensor to replace the pot, but that didn't fix it. Was much cheaper than a TM replacement, but I suppose I was part of the development by providing the measurements and voltage readings etc so I might have gotten a discount 

So on @Snowblind's recommendation, I bought a powered USB hub, and it's almost 100% perfect now. There remains just the slightest change in view zoom sometimes when I come off idle throttle, but I can live with that.

[Scofflaw]

Maybe I'll give that a shot, thanks!  I tried to invert the axis, and noticed it does the same thing on the opposite end.  Basically at 100% forward or aft, and at 50% it's okay, but it jitters pretty heavily at any other position.

 

It's driving me crazy, since I use it for a zoom axis, it looks like my pilot is having small seizures the entire flight.

 

I wish we could put a dead zone or something to help ignore microscopic inputs.

[Scofflaw]

I don't know why I never tried it, but I disabled all the LEDs and the problem is gone.  I really didn't feel like installing the Thrustmaster TARGET software because it gave me issues last time I tried.

 

Thanks again for the help!

[Snowblind]

i'm glad turning off your lEDSs fixed it for you, full brightness should work too. its the in-between stages that cause the jitter. however in my case this didn't fix it, only isolating the throttle on a powered hub sorted it

[_burner_]

i was trying to do this can someone verify this 

 

Feature	251B12T104A2NB (Original Pot)	Bourns PEL12T (Hall)	P3 America ETA25PS (Hall)	TT Electronics MagnePot (Hall)
Type	Potentiometer (Resistive)	Hall Effect (Contactless)	Hall Effect (Contactless)	Hall Effect (Contactless)
Resistance	100KΩ	N/A (Voltage Output)	N/A (Voltage Output)	N/A (Voltage Output)
Output	Variable Resistance (0–100KΩ)	0.5V – 4.5V Analog	0–3.3V, 0–5V, or 0–10V	0.25V – 4.75V Analog
Power Supply	N/A (Passive)	5V	3.3V, 5V, or 15–30V	5V
Life Expectancy	~100K cycles	>10M cycles	>100M cycles	>10M cycles
Mounting	Through-hole, Panel Mount	Panel Mount, Rotary	Panel Mount, Rotary	Panel Mount, Rotary
Sensing	Mechanical Contact	Magnetic Hall Effect	Magnetic Hall Effect	Magnetic Hall Effect
Modification Needed?	No (Direct Replacement)	Yes (Voltage Conversion)	Yes (Voltage Conversion)	Yes (Voltage Conversion)

Key Considerations for Warthog Throttle

• If you want a drop-in replacement, the 251B12T104A2NB (original potentiometer) is the easiest choice.
• Hall effect sensors require additional electronics, since they output voltage instead of resistance. This means you may need a voltage-to-resistance conversion circuit.
• Power supply differences: Hall sensors require 3.3V–5V power, while a standard potentiometer is passive.

Best Choice for Easy Replacement?

• Direct Replacement: 251B12T104A2NB (Easiest, No Modifications)
• Hall Effect Upgrade: P3 America ETA25PS (Longest Lifespan, but Requires Circuit Modifications)
  
  
  can this be done?? that's the question

[RobfromME]

Good evening,

My slider was malfunctioning so I purchased the 251B12T104A2NB from Mouser Electronics.

Unfortunately,  it's no longer the same as what's in the TM throttle, or perhaps my throttle is old enough that it used a different one.  In the image, my original is on the left, still attached to the wires.

  Just wanted to save anyone else the trouble in case they were considering it.

All my best, 

Rob