Training Tracks

[Ice]

I made a training track on how to bomb a ship in low visibility

 

Worth watching

 

 

Enemy AI missiles set to maximum and full Ace settings used

 

Edited views

Click Here to Download

 

Original first Person View

Click Here to Download

[Dmut]

Hello Ice.

That was a little bit risky but interesting :)

Thanks for sharing.

[Ice]

Hello Ice.

That was a little bit risky but interesting :)

Thanks for sharing.

 

please use the track to show me a safer way. I'm yet to find 1

[Dmut]

LOL

I'm not so good in such suicide missions like attaking class "Perry" from sea side, alone, with dump bombs :)

Kh-41 is my choice for this kind of missions, Am I too coward? :roll:

[169th_DedCat]

The Sunburn strikes me as being too simple in LOMAC... pre-designated targets, fly towards the infallible diamond, push a button, fly away... weee. I can't imagine them being quite this boring and hands-off in reality. Using dumb bombs against a ship may be a little unrealistic, but they require actual effort on the part of the pilot. I miss the kind of depth to ASMs that the Harpoon in Jane's F/A-18 had.

 

I'm not saying the Sunburn should be the same as the Harpoon, but how it is modeled now doesn't make much sense. I doubt real navy Flanker pilots can count on an enemy ship cooperating and remaining under some pre-designated diamond on their HUD. Settings for high/medium/low flight profiles, search area size, and go-active ranges might be neat things to have... if they are at all realistic. If not, then they would be great things to have if a flyable Hornet is ever added. :wink:

[Dmut]

Yes, I agree that use of Kh-41 munition with Su-27\33 is not only unrealistic, but also a boring too.

Well, let's wait and see what 16 Vikhr's can do to the ship, and will Su-25T have a time to launch them all before a pilot's ejection :)

[GGTharos]

Actaully you could launch the ASM's in Jane's much the same way ... besides, this weapon system was never produced (was it even ever tested? I don't think there was even a prototype) for the Su-33.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The Sunburn strikes me as being too simple in LOMAC... pre-designated targets, fly towards the infallible diamond, push a button, fly away... weee. I can't imagine them being quite this boring and hands-off in reality.

 

Actually, that is exactly how Argentinian air force destroyed/damaged British vessels in Falklands war! Pilots were really bored flying those missions, launched the missiles way before they could be detected and flew back home! They evaluated their success in the following morning news papers!

[Alfa]

Actaully you could launch the ASM's in Jane's much the same way ... besides, this weapon system was never produced (was it even ever tested? I don't think there was even a prototype) for the Su-33.

 

Well the weapon(3M80E) was produced for the navy as an SSM(P-270), but you are right that the proposed airlaunched version(Kh-41) wasnt.

 

I am not sure whether a prototype weapon was tested though :) .

[enigma6584]

Nice track. You fly too low for my tastes. :)

[169th_DedCat]

Actaully you could launch the ASM's in Jane's much the same way ... besides, this weapon system was never produced (was it even ever tested? I don't think there was even a prototype) for the Su-33.

 

No in Jane's F/A-18 you didn't fire the Harpoon at a mission editor here-is-the-bad-guy-diamond on your HUD. The missile was either slaved to a sea contact on the A/G radar, or it was simply fired in the direction of the ships, but with a pilot programmed search area size, flight profile, terminal approach, and go-active range.

 

The Harpoon in Jane's F/A-18 was intelligent, in LOMAC the Sunburn is not. Unless there is a magical target diamond already over the target ship the missile just flies dumbly straight and level, right over enemy ships, until it runs out of gas.

 

Actually, that is exactly how Argentinian air force destroyed/damaged British vessels in Falklands war! Pilots were really bored flying those missions, launched the missiles way before they could be detected and flew back home! They evaluated their success in the following morning news papers!

 

I really highly doubt that Hajduk. Exactly how is the absolute location of an enemy ship pre-programmed into a missile? A smuggled aboard GPS beacon? A magic spy satellite laser system? Ships are dynamic entities, you can't pre-program their unfailing position into a weapon ahead of time. The only thing you could realistically pre-program the weapon with is a go-active range after launch and a search area size. The ASM used in the Falklands wasn't the Sunburn anyway... I think it was the Exocet.

 

My point here is that the Sunburn doesn't actually go-active and try to locate and track a ship in LOMAC, it just flies towards a mission-editor diamond that magically tracks the enemy ship for it. In the absence of such a magic diamond the weapon is useless.

 

The Sunburn has been produced. Apparently there is a whole stockpile of them ready for delivery, but the Russian navy can't afford to purchase them. I have heard the Chinese have managed to purchase a number, but I don't know if they are in service or if they have even obtained them yet.

 

Given the time-frame in LOMAC the fact that the Sunburn exists is unrealistic in of itself, but if ED is going to keep it in the game, I'd like a little bit more thought put into how it is modeled. Instead of simply flying towards an absolute and unfailing mission-editor magic target diamond, the weapons should be modeled to use their onboard systems to try to locate and track enemy ships, even if the parameters of which truly are completely out of the hands of the Flanker pilot before launch. This would have the fun, and realistic, side-effect that the weapon may entirely fail to locate its target or attack the wrong ship.

 

This is just my opinion. I'm sure there will be those who will dump on this already-on-a-tangent thread stating that ED's efforts are better invested in other areas, and they're probably right. I just really dislike scripted, simplified, weapon systems. Hence why the 169th likes to attack ships with dumb bombs and rockets instead of scripted unfailing Sunburns. :D

[Alfa]

169th_DedCat,

 

Exactly how is the absolute location of an enemy ship pre-programmed into a missile? A smuggled aboard GPS beacon? A magic spy satellite laser system? Ships are dynamic entities, you can't pre-program their unfailing position into a weapon ahead of time.

 

Some Russian SSM systems(such as Granit and Yakhont) employ radar satellites for midcourse guidance(and onboard active radar/IR seeker for terminal homing). When fired against a known target position, the radar seeker goes active automatically as the missile reaches seeker acquisition range.

 

Depending on range to target, missile speed and missile seeker acquisition range, pre-programmed target cordinates may in fact be sufficient.....remember that:

 

a). ships do not travel very fast(typically some 30 knots at full flank), which means that there is a limit as to how far they can have moved from their initial position by the time the missile enters active seeker range.

 

b). the Moskit missile is supersonic (app. Mach 2 at cruise stage) - i.e. covers the launch range very fast.

 

c). the Moskit missile is *a lot* bigger than a Harpoon......with a larger body dia - i.e. room for more powerful active radar homing device for terminal guidance.

 

The N001 radar of the Su-33 does not have air-to-surface modes, and thus has no means of acquiring a target for the Moskit missile by itself. The idea behind the way it was implemented in Lock-on, was that the missile would be pre-programmed with known target cordinates prior to take-off by carrier aircraft, employ a(similar to SSM) satellite link for midcourse guidance once released from the aircraft and then active radar homing at terminal stage....i.e. the Su-33 would act merely as a "cargo truck" - hauling the missile into launch range/altitude and release it :)

 

The Harpoon in Jane's F/A-18 was intelligent, in LOMAC the Sunburn is not. Unless there is a magical target diamond already over the target ship the missile just flies dumbly straight and level, right over enemy ships, until it runs out of gas.

 

It is not a case of the missile being "intelligent" or not.....the difference is that a Hornet has the ability to search and acquire a target for the missile prior to launch and support it by transmitting midcourse guidance to it afterwards.....the Su-33 has no such capability - its radar is air-to-air only :) .

 

If there is no target diamond over the ship in Lock-on, it simply means that the target has not been pre-designated, so launching the missile(via launch override) in the general direction of it, means that missile has no idea what the target is or when to activate its onboard seeker to look for it.

 

The Sunburn has been produced. Apparently there is a whole stockpile of them ready for delivery, but the Russian navy can't afford to purchase them. I have heard the Chinese have managed to purchase a number, but I don't know if they are in service or even have obtained them yet

 

Yes the "Sunburn" has been produced, but not in an airlaunched version....only as SSM.

 

The SSM version(P-270 "Moskit") is the main armament of the Pr 956A("Sovremenny-class") destroyer and Molnya-M("Tarantul III-class") missile boat. According to the Raduga design bureau(who designed the Moskit missile) an airlaunched version was planned but never materialised into an actual missile.

 

Given the time-frame in LOMAC the fact that the Sunburn exists is unrealistic in of itself, but if ED is going to keep it in the game, I'd like a little bit more thought put into how it is modeled

 

The "Sunburn" dates back to the eighties - nothing unrealistic about it being present in a post-1991 Lock-on environment. The only questionable bit concerns its airlaunched nature, but then the plans concerning this

airlaunched variant also dates back to before the fall of the Soviet Union - i.e. before 1991....according the Raduga OKB the plans were exactly dropped because the Soviet collapse meant that there was no money/interest in continiuing the developement of airlaunched variant :)

[169th_DedCat]

That's all well and good Alfa. As I said in my first post, I wasn't claiming the Sunburn should act like the Harpoon. I'm using the dynamics of the Harpoon modeled in Jane's F/A-18 as an illustration to how similar such dynamics are completely lacking from the Sunburn in LOMAC. The missile doesn't do any of its own work in LOMAC. All the work is done by the fellow who put the target designation on the ship in the mission editor, and the missile simply flies towards it in the game.

 

Instead of the target diamond following the enemy ship around, perhaps it would be better if it was fixed on a point on the map where the ships were expected, and the missile actually did some work to locate them when it reached its acquisition range. This would perhaps be a better reflection of reality than the infallible and exact target diamond we have now. I suspect in reality, in the absence of such a pre-programmed target area, the missile could still employed by a Su-33 with a default or pre-programmed go-active-after-launch range and search area.

 

Any way you look at it, the behaviour of ASMs in LOMAC are rigid and completely scripted, IMHO it would be nice if they were not.

[GGTharos]

Yep, you're right. But we probably won't see them get any better until the successor to LOMAC. IF then.

[Ice]

Here's another couple of training tracks on how to land in poor visibilty.

F15 version

 

Points to note:

Velocity Vector -3 degrees

Speed Hold at 170-160 knots

3000 feet at 10 miles

dont chase the needles, small movements only

Click Here to Download

 

Mig29 Version

Points to note:

follow the circle in the hud, keep it on the centre of the ILS

Click Here to Download