Ships Air Defence weapon tests

[Seaeagle]

11 minutes ago, Top Jockey said:

Thank you Seaeagle,

So, by 'combat module' I assume you are refering to each Kashtan (Kortik?) CIWS 'battery'.

Yes . A combat module consists of the dual GsH-6-30K guns, rails for 2x 4 missiles, 2D radar/optics and the below-deck magazine. There is also a command module with a 3D radar and control system that can control and assign targets for up to 6(IIRC) combat modules. "Kortik" is the domestic(Russian) name, while "Kashtan" is the export name for the same system(3M87).

11 minutes ago, Top Jockey said:

Keeping in mind that the ship does have a total of 6 of these modules, we are talking of a total: 192 x "Tunguska" missiles ?

Yes thats correct.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Seaeagle

[Top Jockey]

15 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Yes . A combat module consists of the dual GsH-6-30K guns, rails for 2x 4 missiles, 2D radar/optics and the below-deck magazine. There is also a command module with a 3D radar and control system that can control and assign targets for up to 6(IIRC) combat modules. "Kortik" is the domestic(Russian) name, while "Kashtan" is the export name for the same system(3M87).

Yes thats correct.

 

 

Thank you.

 

So I guess that in DCS maybe 2 of the port board / side modules are using some of the other modules magazine / ammunition since the others stop engaging much earlier... I'll try it further in a couple hours.

[Seaeagle]

16 minutes ago, Top Jockey said:

Thank you.

 

So I guess that in DCS maybe 2 of the port board / side modules are using some of the other modules magazine / ammunition since the others stop engaging much earlier... I'll try it further in a couple hours.

Well I don't know(cannot test) - do the 4 other modules reload after having spent their initial 8 ready-to-fire missiles? - if not then it could either be what you suggest(total amount not distributed correctly) or simply that only two modules actually have reloading made available for them.....could be a little tedious to test since you would have to count a lot of launches to figure it out :)

[Top Jockey]

1 hour ago, Seaeagle said:

Well I don't know(cannot test) - do the 4 other modules reload after having spent their initial 8 ready-to-fire missiles? - if not then it could either be what you suggest(total amount not distributed correctly) or simply that only two modules actually have reloading made available for them.....could be a little tedious to test since you would have to count a lot of launches to figure it out

I believe the other modules also reload, but not as often as the 2 rear ones of the port board / side.

Yeah I know, one would have to count the missile launches by type at the debrief menu after the mission... 

[Top Jockey]

4 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Well I don't know(cannot test) - do the 4 other modules reload after having spent their initial 8 ready-to-fire missiles? - if not then it could either be what you suggest(total amount not distributed correctly) or simply that only two modules actually have reloading made available for them.....could be a little tedious to test since you would have to count a lot of launches to figure it out

 

Well, I believe I've finally managed to exhaust all of the CGN Pyotr Velikiy's onboard SAM stock... a few impressions below.

 

Counting the lines, one by one the type of SAM units launched, at debriefing menu:

48N6 (S-300F) : 33

5V55 (S-300PS) : 52

9M330 (Tor) : 68

9M311 (Tunguska) : 303 (as this is a somewhat big number, there can be roughly a + or - 2 units error...)

 

Conditions / impressions:

- it was a single mission where 52 AI aircraft (in 13 groups) launched anti-ship missiles and flown directly to the AI Pyotr Velikiy;

- not all of them attacked at the same time, neither they all carried anti-ship missiles - AGM-84D... as around 7 hits from these can sink the ship;

- both S-300 types were expended first; then "Tor", and then the "Tunguska" (sometimes along with the 30mm rotary cannons);

- I've concluded the ship's SAM stock was completely expended, as the last 2 aircraft groups flew over and near the ship without him engaging them anymore whatsoever, with the 2 rear port board / side Kortik modules keeping in ready position - pointed horizontally, as if they were replenished;

(Which by the way, are the only ones to do so after expending their ammunition; as the 4 others do stand pointed vertically after expending theirs.)

 

Also, there were other times, in which for instance were shot 38 x 48N6 (S-300F), instead of the 33 x in this mission, I don't understand this ?

 

@Seaeagle, although one was expecting 192 x, does the 303 x 9M311 (Tunguska) in DCS makes any sense for you ?

(Can it be a bug as those 2 modules do replenish much more times than the others ?)

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Top Jockey

[Seaeagle]

11 hours ago, Top Jockey said:

 

Well, I believe I've finally managed to exhaust all of the CGN Pyotr Velikiy's onboard SAM stock... a few impressions below.

 

Counting the lines, one by one the type of SAM units launched, at debriefing menu:

48N6 (S-300F) : 33

5V55 (S-300PS) : 52

9M330 (Tor) : 68

9M311 (Tunguska) : 303 (as this is a somewhat big number, there can be roughly a + or - 2 units error...)

 

Conditions / impressions:

- it was a single mission where 52 AI aircraft (in 13 groups) launched anti-ship missiles and flown directly to the AI Pyotr Velikiy;

- not all of them attacked at the same time, neither they all carried anti-ship missiles - AGM-84D... as around 7 hits from these can sink the ship;

- both S-300 types were expended first; then "Tor", and then the "Tunguska" (sometimes along with the 30mm rotary cannons);

- I've concluded the ship's SAM stock was completely expended, as the last 2 aircraft groups flew over and near the ship without him engaging them anymore whatsoever, with the 2 rear port board / side Kortik modules keeping in ready position - pointed horizontally, as if they were replenished;

(Which by the way, are the only ones to do so after expending their ammunition; as the 4 others do stand pointed vertically after expending theirs.)

 

Also, there were other times, in which for instance were shot 38 x 48N6 (S-300F), instead of the 33 x in this mission, I don't understand this ?

 

@Seaeagle, although one was expecting 192 x, does the 303 x 9M311 (Tunguska) in DCS makes any sense for you ?

(Can it be a bug as those 2 modules do replenish much more times than the others ?)

 

 

 

Heh there are quite a few things in those test results, that don't make any sense to me;

Firstly, this particular vessel of the Kirov class has a combination of S-300F(rear) and S-300FM(front) long range SAM systems and use 48N6 missiles for the former and 48N6E2(extended range version) for the latter. The total amount is 96 missiles(packed in 12x 8-cell rotary launchers at the front of the ship), which IIRC are equally divided between the two types of missiles. 5V55 missiles should not be on the ship at all(only employed by the S-300F system onboard the Slava class cruisers).

So for the S-300F/FM there is both a problem with type and amount(too few if depleted) of missiles. 

Secondly, the Pyotr Velikiy is the only Kirov class vessel employing the Kinzhal short range SAM system and off the top of my head(cannot remember exactly), it has 6x 8-cell launchers, so the total amount available should be 48x 9M330 missiles.

Third, over 300x 9M311 missiles fired makes no sense at all - thats clearly a bug.

 

 

 

 

 

[Top Jockey]

1 hour ago, Seaeagle said:

Heh there are quite a few things in those test results, that don't make any sense to me;

Firstly, this particular vessel of the Kirov class has a combination of S-300F(rear) and S-300FM(front) long range SAM systems and use 48N6 missiles for the former and 48N6E2(extended range version) for the latter. The total amount is 96 missiles(packed in 12x 8-cell rotary launchers at the front of the ship), which IIRC are equally divided between the two types of missiles. 5V55 missiles should not be on the ship at all(only employed by the S-300F system onboard the Slava class cruisers).

So for the S-300F/FM there is both a problem with type and amount(too few if depleted) of missiles. 

Secondly, the Pyotr Velikiy is the only Kirov class vessel employing the Kinzhal short range SAM system and off the top of my head(cannot remember exactly), it has 6x 8-cell launchers, so the total amount available should be 48x 9M330 missiles.

Third, over 300x 9M311 missiles fired makes no sense at all - thats clearly a bug.

 

 

Hello,

I see, the numbers available for each missile type in DCS's Pyotr Velikiy don't match up with the real life ones.

So I guess like you say, the systems are somewhat bugged and with wrong implementations.

 

... I suppose ED (or who created the DCS's Pyotr Velikiy) doesn't plan to correct these aspects in a near future, would they ?

[Seaeagle]

1 hour ago, Top Jockey said:

Hello,

I see, the numbers available for each missile type in DCS's Pyotr Velikiy don't match up with the real life ones.

No at least not for the types where the number is excessive - unless there is some double reporting going on in the mission debrief.

For the S-300F/FM I guess the missile number appearing short of the actual amount it should have, could also be down to the particular situation in the mission - i.e. that the ship may choose to stop employing the long range systems at some point if the remaining targets are outside their engagement envolupe.....this could also explain the bit you mentioned earlier about seemingly having more of one type of missiles in different missions.

 

1 hour ago, Top Jockey said:

So I guess like you say, the systems are somewhat bugged and with wrong implementations.

Yes there are certainly issues with both.

1 hour ago, Top Jockey said:

... I suppose ED (or who created the DCS's Pyotr Velikiy) doesn't plan to correct these aspects in a near future, would they ?

I doubt it. There are a "gazillion" shortcomings(low fidelity, erroneous implementations and bugs) with the naval warfare in DCS, but unfortunately ED doesn't seem to have any interest in this aspect of the sim, so I wouldn't "hold my breath".

[Silver_Dragon]

15 hours ago, Top Jockey said:

 

Well, I believe I've finally managed to exhaust all of the CGN Pyotr Velikiy's onboard SAM stock... a few impressions below.

 

Counting the lines, one by one the type of SAM units launched, at debriefing menu:

48N6 (S-300F) : 33

5V55 (S-300PS) : 52

9M330 (Tor) : 68

9M311 (Tunguska) : 303 (as this is a somewhat big number, there can be roughly a + or - 2 units error...)

 

Conditions / impressions:

- it was a single mission where 52 AI aircraft (in 13 groups) launched anti-ship missiles and flown directly to the AI Pyotr Velikiy;

- not all of them attacked at the same time, neither they all carried anti-ship missiles - AGM-84D... as around 7 hits from these can sink the ship;

- both S-300 types were expended first; then "Tor", and then the "Tunguska" (sometimes along with the 30mm rotary cannons);

- I've concluded the ship's SAM stock was completely expended, as the last 2 aircraft groups flew over and near the ship without him engaging them anymore whatsoever, with the 2 rear port board / side Kortik modules keeping in ready position - pointed horizontally, as if they were replenished;

(Which by the way, are the only ones to do so after expending their ammunition; as the 4 others do stand pointed vertically after expending theirs.)

 

Also, there were other times, in which for instance were shot 38 x 48N6 (S-300F), instead of the 33 x in this mission, I don't understand this ?

 

@Seaeagle, although one was expecting 192 x, does the 303 x 9M311 (Tunguska) in DCS makes any sense for you ?

(Can it be a bug as those 2 modules do replenish much more times than the others ?)

I put the data of Project 1144.2 Pyotr Velikiy CGN here:

- 48N6 and 48N6DMK (96 msls total)
- 9M330 (64 msls total)
- Kortin 9M311 (192 msls total)

[Seaeagle]

11 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Secondly, the Pyotr Velikiy is the only Kirov class vessel employing the Kinzhal short range SAM system and off the top of my head(cannot remember exactly), it has 6x 8-cell launchers, so the total amount available should be 48x 9M330 missiles.

My memory failed me - for some reason I had an image in my head of 3 launch modules on either side of the aft heli pad, but as can be seen on this photo..

:

...there are in fact 4 on either side, so a total of 64x 9M330 missiles is the correct number.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Seaeagle