Support for Smart Access Memory.

[Thinder]

At a time where AMD (and Intel/NVIDIA) are putting a lot into increasing the efficiency of their CPU/GPU combos, perhaps it would be a good idea for DCS developers to fully integrate support for Smart Access Memory.

 

The game itself can improve and allow for better graphics from mid-range but it can't do it without optimization for the use of RAM and VRAM by our systems, especially in VR/4K and complex scenarios and maps where players have the most problems running at high settings with good FPS.

 

Smart Access Memory support would help everyone.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Thinder

[FoxTwo]

This is a DX11 based game engine with roots that go back to DX9.

Let's see what happens when they move to vulkan, and what sorts of features they can leverage to increase performance. Until then, don't expect any development time to be put into random new GPU features or emerging tech.

[Thinder]

42 minutes ago, FoxTwo said:

This is a DX11 based game engine with roots that go back to DX9.

Let's see what happens when they move to vulkan, and what sorts of features they can leverage to increase performance. Until then, don't expect any development time to be put into random new GPU features or emerging tech.

 

What I expect them to do is not being left behind, because as emerging as it is, Smart Access Memory is already well supported, more to it, when AMD, Intel and NVIDIA are coming up with some stuff like this, proven to increase performance by up to 11%, generally, developers take notice, and so should DCS developers because if they don't the concurence will.

[FoxTwo]

52 minutes ago, Thinder said:

 

What I expect them to do is not being left behind, because as emerging as it is, Smart Access Memory is already well supported, more to it, when AMD, Intel and NVIDIA are coming up with some stuff like this, proven to increase performance by up to 11%, generally, developers take notice, and so should DCS developers because if they don't the concurence will.

 

Again, they'll leverage features as they see fit once the new engine is out. I don't expect any development cycles to be put into incremental updates for marginal performance benefits for a niche set of users.

Edited February 5, 2021 by FoxTwo

[Thinder]

35 minutes ago, FoxTwo said:

 

Again, they'll leverage features as they see fit once the new engine is out. I don't expect any development cycles to be put into incremental updates for marginal performance benefits for a niche set of users.

 

 

And which niche set of user would it be? This feature is available to every AMD/Intel/NVIDIA using new generation of CPU and GPU (probably the majority at the time of the realease of the Vulcan engine), quiet a niche.

 

As for what you qualify of marginal, compare that to the average percentage of headroom for O.C with the new 6000 Serie GPU which is 5%, below half of what can be gained by using Smart Access Memory when well implemented.

Otherewise said, there is no argument against it, apart if you wish to see DCS fall behind in terms of development...

 

And just for the record, even my B450 GAMING PLUS MAX supports it if I fit an AMD 6000 or NVIDIA 3080 in it.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Thinder

[Buzzles]

While also echoing FoxTwo's sentiments, DCS is pretty much CPU limited for the most part as most stuff is still on a single thread.

 

Spending time supporting new vendor specific gpu functionality isn't the thing to be focusing on right now.

[Thinder]

9 hours ago, Buzzles said:

While also echoing FoxTwo's sentiments, DCS is pretty much CPU limited for the most part as most stuff is still on a single thread.

 

Spending time supporting new vendor specific gpu functionality isn't the thing to be focusing on right now.

 

Just in case you missed the scoop it is not a "new vendor specific gpu functionality" but a CPU-to-GPU bus improvement (PCIe 3) which brings up to 13% more performances in 4K games that supports it, it means that BOTH CPU and GPU have to be conceived for it as well as their drivers, reason for NVIDIA not to introduce it to other cards younger than the 3080 and are developing their own version.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/12/22226560/nvidia-resizable-bar-support-intel-amd-smart-access-memory-feature

 

AMD, Intel and NVIDIA are not "new vendors", they develop technologies that will be used by 90% of DCS users within a couple of years, one only have to have a look at topics on AMD Ryzen and new GPU to see this, DCS is hard on CPU Core speed and when it comes to load, even at the lowest settings there are limits and the Minimum system requirements doesn't allow for a really enjoyable experience.

 

In short you're arguing that improving the game at every levels from the lowest to the highest settings wouldn't bring any benefit to DCS developers while everyone is crying out in this forum for more performances from the game, in two years, a B450 will be good for the museum, the Ryzen 5600X the base low-end gaming processor, a Radeon RX 6800 mid-range and yet they already support it today.

 

What do you expect from developers? A miracle? Do you seriously think they'll come up with extra FPS for the poorest and boost them for VR players as well without squeezing every single frame out of the possible support for hardware that brings it? I think not. As I already pointed out, the concurents doesn't wait for DCS they already are on the ball.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Thinder

[Buzzles]

You misunderstand my post regarding "new vendor technology", of course the 3 big players aren't new.

Doesn't change the fact SAM is an AMD specific technology, and Nvidia have a comparable technology. Yes, it's all built around the newer PCIe spec, but currently it's not implemented in an software agnostic way as far as I'm aware.

 

All I'm pointing out is focusing on that sort of thing _right now_ isn't the optimal thing to do for DCS, as other aspects of the sim engine need more work first.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Buzzles

[Thinder]

1 hour ago, Buzzles said:

Yes, it's all built around the newer PCIe spec, but currently it's not implemented in an software agnostic way as far as I'm aware.

 

Actually no, since it isn't built for PCIe 4, my B450 handles it with PCIe 3 and only needed a BIOS update and it isn't a PCIe newer spec, the fact that GPU manufactuers doesn't implement it to older cards has little to do with the PCIe bus but is a commercial decision, furthermore it can be updated with simple drivers at a later date as was the case for my motherboard.

 

DCS tries to implement the Vulkan engine so the whole PCIe 3/4 technology is right on it, and fully part of what is needed to be worked on by developers.

 

Quote

All I'm pointing out is focusing on that sort of thing _right now_ isn't the optimal thing to do for DCS, as other aspects of the sim engine need more work first.

 

Again you prioritize in the dark, I'm certain that you haven't informed yourself on what developers worldwide are making of it.

 

Vulkan is directly linked to the CPU and GPU workloads, so there is absolutely no reasons for implementing it while ignoring Smart Access Memory and Resizable BAR since they are already technically part of it, more to the point, it is precisely what we need to see the rise in performances we need.

 

Here is one example:

 

RADV Vulkan Driver Begins Landing Optimizations For AMD Smart Access Memory

 

Drivers will come out sooner than Vulkan will be implemented to DCS so when this happens, DCS developers will have the choice to stay level with the competition, they don't need to develop a different version of Vulkan, just support drivers for  Smart Access Memory and NVIDIA Resizable BAR, otherwise said, offer full driver support for CPU and GPUs.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Thinder

[Mars Exulte]

So, you saw a new hardware sales brochure and felt the need to immediately run to the forums and file a request for it, huh? You know these guys are professionals, right, and are probably more aware of ''emerging tech'' than the average person. More importantly, they're aware whether something is worth their time, and whether or not they have extra manpower to devote to it. They really aren't going to be taking major developmental ques from armchair experts quoting meaningless percentages that may or may not even be relevant to the current application.

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by zhukov032186

[Thinder]

17 hours ago, zhukov032186 said:

So, you saw a new hardware sales brochure and felt the need to immediately run to the forums and file a request for it, huh? You know these guys are professionals, right, and are probably more aware of ''emerging tech'' than the average person. More importantly, they're aware whether something is worth their time, and whether or not they have extra manpower to devote to it.

 

 

 

Oh excuse me.

 

I made it clear that my system already supports the feature given an available RX 6800, so instead of arguing and giving absolutely no alternative but posting funny pics for teletubbies, you'd better dig out and figure how accoring to you gerniuses, DCS developers are going to increase Vulkan FPS for everyone using PCIe 3, which might well be the vast majority of users today, so much for "emerging" and harm chair specialists.

 

Get a grip, not everyone talk about what they have no experience of, and you're not "aware", you claim to be  for the developers, how arrogant, and still have no argument against apart being argumentative and taking your mediocrity for a standard, all you got is a taste for personal attacks, guess who I take seriously here. Not you...

 

Clearly you haven't got the drift yet...

 

Quote

They really aren't going to be taking major developmental ques from armchair experts quoting meaningless percentages that may or may not even be relevant to the current application.

 

 

Let me guess, you're the kind of geezer who call 13% better performances meaningless but will pronto go rave about how he get this same increase by O.C his system to frack, or cry out when he doesn't get more FPS, hilarious, as if writing a few lines of code to support a set of drivers was " taking major developmental ques". Poor boy.

 

Now please vaccate to the knitting forum, perhaps they love to be trolled there...

Edited February 8, 2021 by Thinder

[Thinder]

TAKE YOUR TROLLING PARTIES ELSEWHERE. CHEERS.

[Thinder]

Resizable BAR Tested with Intel - The Power of Boosted Memory Access.

Published: 30th January 2021

https://overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/resizable_bar_tested_with_intel_-_the_power_of_boosted_memory_access/1

[Mars Exulte]

15 hours ago, Thinder said:

Let me guess, you're the kind of geezer who call 13% better performances meaningless

 No, I'm the kind of guy that doesn't automatically assume random percentage examples mentioned in a particular article magically apply to every case just cause it says so in the brochure.

 

 Pick any car on the lot and the salesmen will tell you you look good in it, it speaks to your soul, and then tell you it's the safest bestest car on the lot and he was going to get it for his daughter before you walked in and snatched it up.

[Qiou87]

I think it would be safer to ask for "Resizable BAR", which is universal (nVidia will implement it, Intel probably). "Smart Access Memory" is just AMD's commercial name for it.

 

If you read about what it does, though, the benefits seem to vary a lot from one game engine to the next. In this case I trust ED's developers to know if their game engine can benefit. If it doesn't, and there is no way to make it take advantage, why should they push for it?

 

It would be interesting for someone with DCS World, a Ryzen 5000 CPU and a Radeon 6000 GPU to test the benefits for SAM right now - after all it doesn't need support to be enabled, you can turn it on with those components and just compare the performance.

 

One thing I noted in this review of SAM:

Quote

it's important to understand that SAM doesn't work with all game engines, however. In Borderlands 3 and Divinity, for example, SAM negatively impacts performance. It seems SAM comes with a small CPU overhead, which will cause a loss in FPS in games that are CPU bound because the CPU is losing time in dealing with SAM, time it can't use to handle frame rendering. In certain other games, there's zero impact (e.g., DOOM Eternal). In certain games, though, such as "Gears 5," there are significant frame-rate gains seen with SAM enabled, which help tilt the averages in favor of SAM being enabled.

(source:TechPowerUp)

 

Since we are CPU bound in so many scenarios, increasing CPU overhead does not seem like a benefit for DCS. But I think the devs are better placed to check this than we are.