Question regarding differences between 54A and 54C

[GGTharos]

That's your own fault for not executing solid tactics instead of expecting perfection from your sensors.  Not to mention looking out of the window.

[Skysurfer]

18 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

It's going to take hours of searching through tacviews, but i'll do it just for you 
Missile was fired from 14 nm so quite close.  
I remember seeing 14 nails disappear, thinking "oh he did not fire" i can give chase.... 

Then 5 seconds later i get the RWR warning  

Because of this recent discussion where tomcat pilots were asking HB to make the phoenix go active on it's  own, i figured maybe they had implemented it and was simply asking about it. 
The ability to set target size WAS mentioned very low key in a long list of changes, but in fact has enormous impact on how you must defend vs a tomcat from now on (you only get 2 or 3 seconds of RWR warning now, makes the phoenix WAY more dangerous) , so again i was just wondering if anything might also had changed regarding missile going pitbull on it's own. 

 

 

Sub 10nm, in pulse STT  or in ACM the Phoenix is active off the rail (maddog). How do you know what mode he fired it in? A maddoged fox-3 wont always give you a launch warning off the rail, only once it picks you up and if you maintain the same flight trajectory when the missile was fired. Like, I have done this exact thing with amraams in the past of firing one off maddog without a lock into a group or the direction I expected the guy to be in, with decent success. Please simply record a short clip of that said tacview engagement or cut it down to just that engagement and upload it here. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Skysurfer

[Naquaii]

1 hour ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

It's going to take hours of searching through tacviews, but i'll do it just for you 
Missile was fired from 14 nm so quite close.  
I remember seeing 14 nails disappear, thinking "oh he did not fire" i can give chase.... 

Then 5 seconds later i get the RWR warning  

Because of this recent discussion where tomcat pilots were asking HB to make the phoenix go active on it's  own, i figured maybe they had implemented it and was simply asking about it. 
The ability to set target size WAS mentioned very low key in a long list of changes, but in fact has enormous impact on how you must defend vs a tomcat from now on (you only get 2 or 3 seconds of RWR warning now, makes the phoenix WAY more dangerous) , so again i was just wondering if anything might also had changed regarding missile going pitbull on it's own. 

 

 

At 14NM you wouldn't get an rwr warning. In DCS all active missiles have a seeker range of 10NM and if outside of that you will not get a warning until the missile is within 10NM. This is the same for all active missiles, even the AIM-120 unless ED changed something with it recently. This we can't change and is set in DCS afaik.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

I can't for the life of me find the instance when it happened, it wasn't super recent so it's just too much to search through and i can't be arsed 
I looked at it in tacview before and was sure i Alt-F10'd it (shadowplay) but it's not in my gallery because instant replay wasn't on  

There was a pretty big pause between the 14 nails disappearing and the phoenix going active which led me to believe i was not fire upon.
It had to be lag then or something as from what i understand from the responses above, the missile does not go active on it's own , just like the amraam doesn't , and there should be no delay from when the missile sees me and i get RWR warning. . 
 

 

[r4y30n]

...it's just too much to search through and i can't be arsed 

Then I guess we can’t be arsed to help you, either.

You haven’t read through any of the flight performance threads, have you? Some of those guys spent hours over multiple days running very specific tests to build data to support an argument, as opposed to, “I have a sneaky feeling based on one PvP encounter but I can’t be bothered to find any data to prove that point.”

[Skysurfer]

2 hours ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

I can't for the life of me find the instance when it happened, it wasn't super recent so it's just too much to search through and i can't be arsed 

It had to be lag then or something as from what i understand from the responses above, the missile does not go active on it's own , just like the amraam doesn't , and there should be no delay from when the missile sees me and i get RWR warning. . 
 

 

 

So you come here with having no case or factual evidence and expect everyone else to be "arsed"? People in here have done numerous and rigorous tests with all types of missiles in the past to get statistical and hard data on their behaviour.

 

Also, I don't get what you mean by "does not go active on its own" - every fox 3 can do that. The whole reason for this topic is whether the 54C (specifically) is supposed to receive an active signal when launched in Pulse-Doppler STT beyond the 10nm mark. And again, below 10nm or in P-STT it is active off the rail regardless of range with the seeker looking at the last known position of the enemy target at the time of launch. The RIO can even set a target size in the back and command the missile to go active earlier and later giving one as little as 3 seconds if it is set to "SMALL" aka. fighter sized target. Currently there is an issue with the INS on both the AMRAAM and Phoenix where they wont go actve or even won't de-loft if you break the lock too soon. What should and should not be is not for you to decide and should be left up to our SME's here at Heatblur and ED.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Skysurfer

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

6 minutes ago, Skysurfer said:

 

....So you come here with having no case or factual evidence and expect everyone else to be "arsed"?.....

 

How on earth did you get that from my QUESTION ?? 
I was simply asking if anything changed regarding the missile going active on it's own 

And no, people were asking for the missile to go active automatically WITHOUT receiving a signal from the aircraft's radar. 

[Skysurfer]

1 hour ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

And no, people were asking for the missile to go active automatically WITHOUT receiving a signal from the aircraft's radar. 

 

Whatever. Maybe next time try to chose better words or be precise with your "questions". You literally accused HB of making some shadow-changes making the missile not give you a RWR warning. 

 

To your quoted statement above: It lireally already does that in TWS - you can now even control the range it goes active at to some extent. This entire discussion was based on some SME input by Klarsnow (who is a real life WSO/ECMO if you didn't know) and some more documentation that people have found stating its component numbers/types leading to some more assumptions regarding its possible PD-STT behavior. Obviously we probably will never know for a fact since all of the hard data and documents are classified or have probably beed destroyed/locked away somewhere.