Alfa Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Could you be more specific about this problem? No I couldn't, because I don't know the specifics :) . FSX is also a flight simulator There are 100-mission deep campaigns in FSX? .....I didn't even know there was a combat element to FSX at all :) . So why DCS suffers so much, that it can't run big missions? Big campaigns - and since it can on XP, I would tend to argue that it isn't DCS that "suffers so much" :) . JJ
-Skipper- Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Actually, Rattler, the preinstalled Vistas are not a hard argument any longer, as M$ offers an upgrade and downgrade option for the preinstalled system. This means, you can get an XP-Full-Version for the preinstalled Vista, if you like to. Why would ED make a flight sim for the minority of the population. They do. This minority is called flightsimmers and of all the geeks out there, we are the guys who spend the most money on hardware, input devices, monitors and programs. As a result of this, as you can see in this thread, Vista-users are not rare here Too expensive to even consider change. Vista costs 10 bucks more than XP. The basic version without the optic effecs is available for less than 65 Euros here. we are now waiting for a better OS is Windows 7 it That's always easy to say. You can say it runs well on XP because you can test it and you can say it probably will run with Windows 7, but I'd like to remind you, that Vista is based on XP and Windows 7 is based on Vista. If you've seen the review of the Alpha, you can see that pretty well. Surely they will implement some improvements in performance, but what sort of hardware you will need to benefit from that, you won't know until it's been released and tested. I honestly doubt that the new windows will be less resource-hungry, better optimized to run with outdated hardware or games. Which version of windows or any OS ever did? What makes you so convinced Win7 will, that you beat the drums for it, 2 years before it's released? As I posted before, there are many games that run a lot better with Vista than the run with my parallel installed XP and with more eyecandy that is. WorldInConflict is surely one of the best examples I know. DCS may not run as well, but I won't dare to judge on this until I tested this myself - including that "XP"-campaign. :smilewink: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
vowthyn Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 (edited) Actually, Rattler, the preinstalled Vistas are not a hard argument any longer, as M$ offers an upgrade and downgrade option for the preinstalled system. This means, you can get an XP-Full-Version for the preinstalled Vista, if you like to. This is true only for Business and Ultimate versions. I suppose, that majority of preinstalled systems, which are bought with brand new computers are Home Premium and Basic versions, and licence for this one does not allow such downgrade. I honestly doubt that the new windows will be less resource-hungry, better optimized to run with outdated hardware or games. Which version of windows or any OS ever did? What makes you so convinced Win7 will, that you beat the drums for it, 2 years before it's released?I perfectly agree that this is most unlikely to happen, as OS developers are never forced to optimise new OS for old hardware (because new is always available), even more - they are supposed to force users for buying new hardware. I think, that reverse situation could lead to market stagnation (why would one buy a new hardware, if old one was suitable for new sofware?), and I'm sure MS will not allow such situation to happen. Edited September 18, 2008 by vowthyn
some1 Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 (edited) No I couldn't, because I don't know the specifics :) . Ok, no more technical questions then. :) There are 100-mission deep campaigns in FSX? .....I didn't even know there was a combat element to FSX at all :) . Now you want to argue which sim is a bigger resource hog? :) You wrote that you don't know specifics about the problem, so why assume that it's due to combat and AI algorithms? In other areas FSX is comparable with DCS or even displays more. I'm not saying it works smooth and fast, but it works on Vista just as on XP. That's the point of this discussion. Big campaigns - and since it can on XP, I would tend to argue that it isn't DCS that "suffers so much" :) . Ahh, so the campaigns have problems, but single missions work ok? Edited September 18, 2008 by some1 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
-Skipper- Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 (edited) This is true only for Business and Ultimate versions. I suppose, that majority of preinstalled systems, which are bought with brand new computers are Home Premium and Basic versions, and licence for this one does not allow such downgrade. That is not correct - at least not in Europe. You can downgrade any version. A few month ago, I bought a new Notebook with Home Basic installed and I had the option to downgrade. So I doubt it's limited to the more expensive versions. 2 weeks ago, I bought another one for a friend with Home Premium, and I was notified after bying, that I have the choice to downgrade to XP. I perfectly agree that this is most unlikely to happen, as OS developers are never forced to optimise new OS for old hardware (because new is always available), even more - they are supposed to force users for buying new hardware. I think, that reverse situation could lead to market stagnation (why would one buy a new hardware, if old one was suitable for new sofware?), and I'm sure MS will not allow such situation to happen. True. It's a common slogan that software sells hardware. And you don't even need to point at Microsoft. I doubt you will be able to play the upcoming DCS-engine with the same hardware and the same detail-level you can run current LockOn-Versions with. That's why I think hoping for Win7 is okay, but saying that it will be better and faster than Vista is wishful thinking at best. @some1: Ahh, so the campaigns can't load, but single missions work ok? That's brings me to finally ask a question about this: Does the new campaign-system load all missions at once in a campaign? What's the idea behind that? I know the outcome of one mission will have an impact on the next, but that doesn't explain it to me, why there's got to be such a big file needed to be handled? Edited September 18, 2008 by -Skipper- [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
empeck Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 That is not correct - at least not in Europe. You can downgrade any version. A few month ago, I bought a new Notebook with Home Basic installed and I had the option to downgrade. So I doubt it's limited to the more expensive versions. 2 weeks ago, I bought another one for a friend with Home Premium, and I was notified after bying, that I have the choice to downgrade to XP. You are wrong: http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/f/4/5f4c83d3-833e-4f11-8cbd-699b0c164182/royaltyoemreferencesheet.pdf Only Vista Business and Ultimate can be downgraded to XP Pro.
vowthyn Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 That is not correct - at least not in Europe. You can downgrade any version. A few month ago, I bought a new Notebook with Home Basic installed and I had the option to downgrade. So I doubt it's limited to the more expensive versions. 2 weeks ago, I bought another one for a friend with Home Premium, and I was notified after bying, that I have the choice to downgrade to XP. Than I was misinformed by Microsoft itself, as I am software reseller from Poland, and asked about such things many times through Microsoft's infoline always receiving the same answer that downgrade is only allowed for Business and Ultimate. That refers not only to XP downgrade but also to language switching (you are not allowed to do it, unless you have the proper version, that is Ultimate or Business). The only change that licence allows to make regardless of OS version is switching from x32 to x64 and vice versa.
ED Team Groove Posted September 18, 2008 ED Team Posted September 18, 2008 Guys, get back on topic or open a new thread in the tech section. Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
-Skipper- Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 You are wrong: http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/f/4/5f4c83d3-833e-4f11-8cbd-699b0c164182/royaltyoemreferencesheet.pdf Only Vista Business and Ultimate can be downgraded to XP Pro. Cool! Thanks for the heads up. Guess I should have accepted both offers :doh: - apparently both resellers were not informed about this either! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
rattler Posted September 18, 2008 Author Posted September 18, 2008 Yes Groove, I agree. One could argue this tech stuff and you don't get anywhere. Back on topic guy's if you please. No more Xp this Vista that or Windows 7 maybe!!! Groove thank you for stepping in.
Alfa Posted September 18, 2008 Posted September 18, 2008 Now you want to argue which sim is a bigger resource hog? :) You wrote that you don't know specifics about the problem, so why assume that it's due to combat and AI algorithms? In other areas FSX is comparable with DCS or even displays more. I'm not saying it works smooth and fast, but it works on Vista just as on XP. That's the point of this discussion. No some1 - the point of the discussion was what Wags wrote about Vista vs. XP in relation to large campaigns. In this connection it makes no sense to compare with FSX for obvious reasons - I think you will agree :) . Ahh, so the campaigns have problems, but single missions work ok? Yes as far as I can tell. But in order to make direct comparisons on game performance you would need to run the same mission(s) on two similar setups with only the OS being different. I have two systems, but one is much more powerful than the other and both run XP, so I am not in a positon to make such comparisons myself :) . JJ
-Skipper- Posted September 19, 2008 Posted September 19, 2008 Guys, get back on topic or open a new thread in the tech section. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. But then, aren't we talking about Vista vs XP vs alternatives for 11 pages now? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
rattler Posted September 19, 2008 Author Posted September 19, 2008 Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. But then, aren't we talking about Vista vs XP vs alternatives for 11 pages now? Not bothering to look back but I started this post with a question on what size of a computer is one going to need to run DCS:BS at it's FULL potential. That is not a quote but basically this is what the thread is about. As usual it got hijacked into OS systems. In a way it started out in a way that would answer the question then got way off track. Time to get back on track. I do believe we have an answer if you want to wonder down through the threads. I am satisfied as I read each reply and I have received my answer to my satisfaction. Cheers. Groove You can close this if you want as I have my answer.
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