Mirage 2000... plane of SATAN.

[cobrabase]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shzJtPtsYsk&fmt=18 Edited September 13, 2008 by cobrabase

[Pilotasso]

You made this? lol oh lol man. And another ROFL

[cobrabase]

You made this? lol oh lol man. And another ROFL

 

With the help of some great clips from James Rolfe, yes. I ,made this.

 

CAN YOU BELIEVE HOW CLOSE THOSE MISSILES WERE?!!! CAN THIS PLANE BE SHOT DOWN?

[arthuro12]

i lold so hard i cried breast milk..

[cobrabase]

OKay... might want to get that checked.

[Peyoteros]

Well, I don't know how is for you guys, but for me, kill F15C is far more easier than Mirage. They're good :D Not impossible but not an easy one... ;)

[Frostie]

Tried this furryball mission, yes the Mirage's avoided 27ER's but ate ET's but also the Mig's after evaded the ER's so also ate ET's as for the F-15's at the end well they had to make do with 73's.:D

 

The LO Mirage definately has uber-qualities especially in a dogfight but some of the missile misses are just down to poor missile modelling.

[graywo1fg]

Lol!! wow! thats awesome! either the plane is dam near invincible or your computer hates you :D very funny video though :rotflmao::megalol:

[cobrabase]

A little of both I think....

[arthuro12]

You are.. a friggin genious

[cobrabase]

Let's not go THAT far. Brilliant perhaps.

[GGTharos]

Hillarious :D

 

(Also, after a little practice, I can dodge your flanker's entire payload in an F-15 ;) )

 

BTW, the Mirage is the biggest benefactor of LOMAC's AI UFO FM. What you're looking at is the capability to sustain an extremely high turn rate at less than 300kts ... it is utterly ridiculous. The other part of the problem is LOMAC's missile issues.

 

(And no, the R-73 is not the most accurate IR missile in the world. In LOMAC, maybe, but in the real world it had contenders in the form of the AIM-9M and Python series ;) )

[cobrabase]

Really?! I knew about the Python but didn't know that the AIM-I Mike was as accurate as you say!

[GGTharos]

They are all using similar seeker technlology. The R-73's advantage over the AIM-9M is wider gimbal angle (60 deg vs 30-35 deg) and thrust vectoring, basically expanding the short range engagement envelope for that missile.

[Pilotasso]

From What I've told the biggest advantage of the R-73 is precisely target descrimation. The AIM-9L/M is behind in flares rejection. Did you notice the incident involving the georgian prop drone, the R-73 takes about 2 seconds to lock and launch? the AIM does the same when looking at an afterburner. ;)

 

Dont ask where I got this info. ;)

 

Of course when it regards the BVR missilery the situation is reversed, and once merged in a furball from and avnategeous BVR engagements theres so much AIM-9's you can dodge:)

Edited September 14, 2008 by Pilotasso

[GGTharos]

Did you know that the first R-73 launched at that drone missed? Don' ask me where I got this info ;)

 

So far I haven't seen any evidence of the R-73 having better target discrimination than the AIM-9M ... quite the opposite. Then again, the descriptions come from somewhat iffy sources.

 

However, if you consider that AIM-9's worked quite nicely against helicopters ...

[92nd-MajorBug]

Sorry for digging this up after a month ;)

 

What you're looking at is the capability to sustain an extremely high turn rate at less than 300kts ... it is utterly ridiculous.

It's not, if you know the real plane's capabilites. The Mirage 2000 was designed as a lightweight fighter which only purpose is dogfight. The first versions back in the early 80's didn't have a BVR payload at all (only two Super 530-F per plane, which is quite a joke). The F-16 would have been just the same if the USAF didn't turn it into an all weather attack fighter and increased it's weight, just because the F-15 program did cost so much they had to protect it.

 

Greece is using both the F-16 and the Mirage 2000 in their airforce, and pilots for the both planes are trained just the same. The fact is, if a Mirage 2000 dogfights an F-16 , the Mirage will win 9 times out of 10.

 

Now look at the number of aircrafts an F-16 can defeat quite easily in dogfight, and you'll know that the Mirage 2000 performance is indeed way above the standard ;)

The only flaw of the plane is it's quite weak engine, which makes it can not sustain an hi-G turn for too long. That's where planes like Sukhoi can gain the advantage, and recent France vs India trainings proved it ;)

 

Now, it's not really what makes the plane very hard to hit in LOMAC, cause as you can see in the vid, the Mirage does not avoid missiles by manoever, they just come right at it and don't fuse for some reason. The reason seems to be the RCS of the plane, which is one of the lowest in LOMAC, and which makes all the missiles, not only radar guided ones, miss most of the time. You will find quite the same behaviour with F-16 and Mig-23, as these two planes have the lowest RCS in the game apart from the F-117 ;)

 

The only way we found to get these ones down without using 10 missiles on each one of them is :

- always fire the missiles in lookup radar conditions (in the vid, nearly all the missiles are fired lookdown)

- never fire on a target while it's already using flares or chaffs, anyway the AI won't fire at you as long as it's defending, so you have all the time you want to get on it's back and wait for the right moment to shoot.

Usually it does the trick ;)

 

My2cents

[GGTharos]

I'm sorry, what? 30 DPS SUSTAINED at under 300kts? Are you SURE you want to say that? ;)

[92nd-MajorBug]

Nope, of course not, because with a delta wing you get incredible instant turn rates, but the plane will bleed it's energy very fast. Plus, the engine of the Mirage 2000 was designed for high supersonic (above M1.4) and will produce in the best case a crappy 0.65 t/w ratio at takeoff, which is far below most of it's potential opponents.

 

If you wish to point out that I left aside the word "sustain" in your statement, you may do so, but still I don't get your point with the sustained turn rate. Avoiding a missile by manoevering is about getting the sharpest possible turn against the incoming missile. Being able to make several 360s at 18 to 20 dps won't get you anywhere against a missile. Being able to get 30 dps for 10 to 15 seconds, however, is useful, and the Mirage 2000 is capable of that both in LOMAC and in real life. I don't see the Mirage in the video here doing 360s and using it's (crappy) sustained turn rate at all ...

 

And speaking of the sustained turn rate, if you try to beat the Mirage 2000 in LOMAC by doing a simple nose-to-tail manoever with a Su-27, you may win in the end, because the sustained turn rate of the Mirage 2000 is quite realistic in LOMAC, and it's not this good.

[GGTharos]

I made a point that the AI use a UFO flight model, whereby the Mirage will sustain incredible turn rates at slow speeds in LOFC :)

 

In the case of LOFC, this also helps a bit with missiles (though you're quite right, it shouldn't help you a bit when really, you're effectively standing still).

 

By the way, are you talking a clean Su-27 with 20% fuel?...

[Sawamura]

lol nice vid.

[Pilotasso]

Nope, of course not, because with a delta wing you get incredible instant turn rates, but the plane will bleed it's energy very fast. Plus, the engine of the Mirage 2000 was designed for high supersonic (above M1.4) and will produce in the best case a crappy 0.65 t/w ratio at takeoff, which is far below most of it's potential opponents.

 

Hmmm Mirages T/W ratio is lower than other planes but THAT low... hmmm it doesnt corroborate with some footage I saw about mirages going straight vertical at take off.

[92nd-MajorBug]

I made a point that the AI use a UFO flight model, whereby the Mirage will sustain incredible turn rates at slow speeds in LOFC

And I don't agree :P

 

Either the AI will indeed do a level turn at 30 dps and then it will loose energy quickly, or it will sustain the speed and in this case get a larger turn radius and a worse turn rate than the Su-27.

 

You can do the test, just by turning level and sticking to the corner speed, the Mirage will break off or go vertical after ~720° cause it will be constantly loosing AOT.

 

By the way, are you talking a clean Su-27 with 20% fuel?...

Equal fuel fraction (empty weight / fuel weight), so if the Mirage gets 100% fuel, the Su-27 gets 70%. The test is done with an Excellent AI, but no G-effect as the AI does not feel them.

 

Hmmm Mirages T/W ratio is lower than other planes but THAT low... hmmm it doesnt corroborate with some footage I saw about mirages going straight vertical at take off.

If by any chance you got to see HUD footage, the t/w is shown at the top center of the HUD. There's even some footage of a solo demo training where the pilots say on the radio "hey, 0.69, it's okay, even better than yesterday ...". And the damn plane is slick, imagine a Mirage 2000-5F with 6 missiles and 3 fuel tanks :P

 

What they usually do with the take off in demo flight is flying level for a few secs just after take off, and then shoot upwards. But at the end of a slow pass, a F-16 always goes vertical, while a Mirage 2000 has to turn around level ;)

Edited October 14, 2008 by 92nd-MajorBug

[GGTharos]

And you're turning with him at the same speed? :)

[92nd-MajorBug]

At the beginning of the fight we're both at 800 km/h but then the AI Mirage bleeds it's energy all the way down to 400 km/h, while I keep the corner speed (650 km/h). If you know a way to tell the AI to keep it's corner speed all the time, well, go on and I'll do the test again :P

 

By the way this behaviour is realistic too, in the way that a real Mirage pilot would choose to bleed most of the available energy quickly, so that he get's the sharpest first turn possible and a big angle advantage early into the fight. That how you can see some footage of Mirages dogfighting at 100 kts ... and they still manoever very well at this speed ;)