Pilot Sight ASP-17V

[VampireNZ]

PDF that I prepared for my own ref that compiles some of the info from the DCS Russian language forum from the WIP Hind manual for anyone interested in a heads-up on the pilot sight. Thought I may as well post up as someone else might find it interesting.

 

Obviously the Hind is heavily WIP so I cannot 'guarantee' any of this info... 

Pilot Sight ASP-17V.pdf

[Lipeydan]

Oh nicely done. That can be helpfull thx.

[randomTOTEN]

Does anybody have any information on the use of the use of value 6a as depicted in the sight diagram? It's label in Cyrillic is "д нач /км/" in English "R INT (KM)"

Since it scrolls directly with the "base range" that implies that a given target size translates to some defined distance. For what?

It also means there are not one, but two distance inputs active at the same time. The Cyrillic нач appears to translate to "beginning," or "start," which infers it's not merely a distance measurement value....

[AeriaGloria]

4 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

Does anybody have any information on the use of the use of value 6a as depicted in the sight diagram? It's label in Cyrillic is "д нач /км/" in English "R INT (KM)"

Since it scrolls directly with the "base range" that implies that a given target size translates to some defined distance. For what?

It also means there are not one, but two distance inputs active at the same time. The Cyrillic нач appears to translate to "beginning," or "start," which infers it's not merely a distance measurement value....

It is just a multipurpose gauge that says Km/base in case it is used in an aircraft that needs it’s for km and not base/span. 
 

The knob adjusts the mil seperation of the floating pilot pipper lines. In manual mode it will be 1:1 mils from gauge to sight. In Auto it will automatically adjust the mil seperation of the floating pipper lines so that at range it should frame your target. 

For example, if I set my base range to 7 mils, length of a BTR-80. In manual mode there will be a 7 mil gap in the middle of the floating pipper crosshairs. In auto, it will change size with range in such a way so that if I attack a BTR-80 from the side, and range is accurate, the pipper should perfectly frame the BTR-80. 

One way this can be used, is to see large errors in range due to terrain elevation delta messing up the CCIP. So you can see if it’s range is too short or long, and have an additional visual cue for range in addition to the range arc from 12 to 3 o’clock on the the pipper.

So, ignore the “Km” label, as it only controls mil separation of floating pipper 

[randomTOTEN]

Thanks @AeriaGloria, here's some feedback on your ideas.

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

The knob adjusts the mil seperation of the floating pilot pipper lines

I got into manually setup because of the Grenade Launcher training mission. In the mission you are told that the left scale of the knob is calibrated in meters, not mils. Of course, it's possible the training mission is correct, but I would also mention the Quick Start Guide which mentions "Set the target size for automatic distance calculation."

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

In manual mode it will be 1:1 mils from gauge to sight.

This actually isn't correct. If you adjust the range setting on the armament panel (or I assume allow for automatic range adjustment). The crosshair scale changes. Thus, it can't be a direct mil setting.

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

...if I set my base range to 7 mils, length of a BTR-80. In manual mode there will be a 7 mil gap in the middle of the floating pipper crosshairs.

Again, this is not how it works in the sim.

1 hour ago, AeriaGloria said:

In auto, it will change size with range

This can only make sense if the scale is meters, not mils. Mils do not change as a function of distance, as they are an angular measurement. 7 mils is 7 mils at 100m or 100km. The size of the object which encompasses 7 mils will change.

This scale does not move in Auto CCIP and Auto Range. The base range defines the gap size of the cross hair, which is then adjusted by the automatic range calculation. The (actual) mil changes continuously to accurately reflect target size at calculated range.

The other thing which is strange is that the distance scale increases as the base size increases (they are the same knob). You would expect the cross hair gap to get smaller as the distance is increased. But in the simulator the cross hair grows in size as the "start range" increases.

[AeriaGloria]

25 minutes ago, randomTOTEN said:

Thanks @AeriaGloria, here's some feedback on your ideas.

I got into manually setup because of the Grenade Launcher training mission. In the mission you are told that the left scale of the knob is calibrated in meters, not mils. Of course, it's possible the training mission is correct, but I would also mention the Quick Start Guide which mentions "Set the target size for automatic distance calculation."

This actually isn't correct. If you adjust the range setting on the armament panel (or I assume allow for automatic range adjustment). The crosshair scale changes. Thus, it can't be a direct mil setting.

Again, this is not how it works in the sim.

This can only make sense if the scale is meters, not mils. Mils do not change as a function of distance, as they are an angular measurement. 7 mils is 7 mils at 100m or 100km. The size of the object which encompasses 7 mils will change.

This scale does not move in Auto CCIP and Auto Range. The base range defines the gap size of the cross hair, which is then adjusted by the automatic range calculation. The (actual) mil changes continuously to accurately reflect target size at calculated range.

The other thing which is strange is that the distance scale increases as the base size increases (they are the same knob). You would expect the cross hair gap to get smaller as the distance is increased. But in the simulator the cross hair grows in size as the "start range" increases.

Have you tried flipping the sight to manual mode? Becuase only then does it become direct mil setting. There is two distinct modes of operation here depending on the position of the manual/auto switch for ASP-17. One that allows you to do stadiametric range finding from 0-3500m when switch is in manual, and when in auto as you say is more of a meter adjustment. 

[randomTOTEN]

47 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

and when in auto as you say is more of a meter adjustment. 

That's the manual mode.

EDIT: It actually appears to work identically in either mode. Like all the only thing AUTO+(AUTO RANGE) is actually doing is adjusting 1)depression 2)drift 3)range all in real time.

Edited March 12, 2023 by randomTOTEN

[AeriaGloria]

15 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

That's the manual mode.

EDIT: It actually appears to work identically in either mode. Like all the only thing AUTO+(AUTO RANGE) is actually doing is adjusting 1)depression 2)drift 3)range all in real time.

 

I will get back to you when I have tested. Becuase before this patch it should have the two behaviors depending on auto/man switch of the sight, or perhaps I have it wrong and it’s the auto range switch on the weapons panel that does it 

[randomTOTEN]

Would you like a track? I'd be happily to look at one you can upload too...

[AeriaGloria]

5 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

Would you like a track? I'd be happily to look at one you can upload too...

After a quick test you are correct. It seems all milliradian function was removed. In order to have your range CCIP pipper have the correct miliradians for stadiametric range finding, you have to actually dial in the correct range and meter distance. 

i presume this helps alleviate some guesswork in real life. But it is interesting and took me a while to figure out how to make it work. I wonder how long it has been this way? 

[randomTOTEN]

No idea. It's only been the last couple days that I've been experimenting with these settings. If you want, I suggest flying the "Grenade Pods Employment" training mission. What you've discovered is explained there.

Interesting to hear it didn't always work that way.

Perhaps here?

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/170893-dcs-world-changelog-and-updates-of-open-beta/?do=findComment&comment=5073924

Quote

Fixed: ASP-17 manual range input and indication adjusted

 

[AeriaGloria]

6 hours ago, randomTOTEN said:

No idea. It's only been the last couple days that I've been experimenting with these settings. If you want, I suggest flying the "Grenade Pods Employment" training mission. What you've discovered is explained there.

Interesting to hear it didn't always work that way.

Perhaps here?

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/170893-dcs-world-changelog-and-updates-of-open-beta/?do=findComment&comment=5073924

 

Yes that would make sense. I have noticed the dynamic “floating pipper mil seperation” changing with range since then. 
 

Good find. I’ll take a look at the mission