What kind of stuff do i need to play DCS properly?

[Mip...]

Hey guys,

im really looking forward to Black Shark, would be my first simulation ever.

I dont want to play it in the arcade mode, i want to start off with maximum realism since that what a simulation is for right?

All input devices i have is a mouse and a keyboard. Since that doenst really match the needs of a flight sim i would buy a stick with release.

Only problem is that i dont have the money for more stuff, like peddals or trackir. So can you tell me wherever i can play the game in simulation mode with stick / mouse / keyboard sufficiently? If not i have to think about the purchase twice :(

 

greetz

[GGTharos]

Yes you can :)

You'll be missing out a bit without the TIR, but you can try to use freetrack instead.

As for the pedals, your HOTAS should be able to handle rudder, though pedals are obviously better - that said, you can fly fairly well without pedals.

 

So can you tell me wherever i can play the game in simulation mode with stick / mouse / keyboard sufficiently? If not i have to think about the purchase twice :(

 

greetz

[Mip...]

Bit of a contradictory post here....If you want a good cheap joystick get a saitek aviator or a saitek I forgot the name it's a good one, I'd get the cougar HOTAS.

 

No you really cant play very well at all with just mouse/keyboard

 

The question was more wherever i need trackir and pedals to play properly :p ( sorry for english)

[GGTharos]

He already said he's going to buy a stick though.

[Mip...]

I wont fly with only keyboard, i will buy a saitey hotas.

btw another question: When using pedals + trackir is it just more comfortabe or do you get real in game advantages out of that, like better hit / death ratio etc.?

[GGTharos]

Using TIR makes looking around more natural, and takes away from some of the workload you experience by using the hat switch to look around. In a 6DOF environment it might make a big difference - especially once the fighters come out.

 

For a helicopter, rudder pedals make control feel more natural and imho more accurate but they won't increase your k/d ratio ;)

[Mip...]

Using TIR makes looking around more natural, and takes away from some of the workload you experience by using the hat switch to look around. In a 6DOF environment it might make a big difference - especially once the fighters come out.

 

For a helicopter, rudder pedals make control feel more natural and imho more accurate but they won't increase your k/d ratio ;)

 

k thank you.

I will fly the Black Shark then with Stick and will try to get a webcam from a friend for freetrack, since that could help really much. Otherwise only the stick will do it too if i have gotten you right :D :joystick:

Edited October 5, 2008 by Mip...

[GGTharos]

Stick + Throttle ... you'll want that throttle control :)

But yes, this should be enough to get you started and flying well - eventually you should save up some for a TIR, it will change the way you do things!

You'll be able to look around the nose etc when you are doing your landings, or look farther back behind your heli than you can from the normal position, etc ...

 

Yes, you CAN do this with the hat switch, but ... it's a chore :D

[Mip...]

Stick + Throttle ... you'll want that throttle control :)

But yes, this should be enough to get you started and flying well - eventually you should save up some for a TIR, it will change the way you do things!

You'll be able to look around the nose etc when you are doing your landings, or look farther back behind your heli than you can from the normal position, etc ...

 

Yes, you CAN do this with the hat switch, but ... it's a chore :D

 

I just searched for "Throttle" in Google and must say : wow.

Its not just peddals its a whole controle panel inclusive, but the Price :Flush::cry_2: About 100 €.

If i get really thrilled by Black Shark i will first buy TrackIr i think ( also 100€, and that as a student :cry_2: )

Otherwise if Freetrack will work really good for me ( when i cant imagine Trackir to be really much better) than i will of course buy the throttle instead. But for the first months only the stick will have to do it for me.

 

Thinking about this

[http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-102989-Cyborg-Evo-Joystick/dp/B0000AW9P1/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1223224465&sr=8-1

for 30€, is it ok for my first try of a flight sim? :D

[chaos]

As an aside... I don't have rudder pedals. Does BS allow for automatic turn coordination or am I stuck with, for instance, the Z- and X- key for rudder control all the time?

[GGTharos]

Mip: That stick should be ok, you'll have a bit more workload than with a HOTAS. However if you can, you should go for a HOTAS - like Saitek X-52.

 

Chaos: If your stick has any rotaries, assign the rudder to them.

[chaos]

If your stick has any rotaries, assign the rudder to them.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't... buying a set of crappy pedals for 130euros is something I'd like to avoid. I was thinking of building my own but real life has been getting in the way lately... anyway, didn't want to high-jack the thread... carry on Mip!

regards.

[deviletk]

How many are using/have used the CH HOTAS? Im thinking of buying those but a bit offensive towards it because it has less buttons than the Saitek X series. I wont have the money to spend on touch screens and such for a while, but i feel i need to step up a bit from the named ones wich have served me for years. :)

 

The CH seems to have the buttons better placed and i love that thumb POV on the middle of the stick.

 

Cougar is a little too expensive atm, but i need to get something new for BS. Do you think the CH will serve me well? Ill have to place the keyboard a bit smarter with that stick i guess.

 

And to you MIP, the X45 or X52 joysticks (HOTAS) with throttle is very nice for starters. You get some 90 functions at your finger tips. You start out with the essential buttons and then add new functions as you go with the great programming software. They are 100€ but it is worth it (unless you find a used one for less money). I had my X45 for many years now and i only just now had a small hickup. I emailed Saitek about it and they sended a spare part for free. So you get good support on these babies. ;) The cyborg and its likes dont have the throttle control you want to have in a real sim. They have throttle, but i mean that you dont get the long range for better control when throttling with that little throttle peg.

 

Regards

Alex

Edited October 5, 2008 by deviletk

[crazysundog]

I agree with deviltetk,

 

Mip... save for the X52, you wont be dissapointed!

 

Also, I've heard freetrack is just as capable as TrackIR, but you may want to research it more yourself.

[Aeroscout]

How many are using/have used the CH HOTAS? Im thinking of buying those but a bit offensive towards it because it has less buttons than the Saitek X series. I wont have the money to spend on touch screens and such for a while, but i feel i need to step up a bit from the named ones wich have served me for years. :)

 

The CH seems to have the buttons better placed and i love that thumb POV on the middle of the stick.

 

Cougar is a little too expensive atm, but i need to get something new for BS. Do you think the CH will serve me well? Ill have to place the keyboard a bit smarter with that stick i guess.

 

I used to have the x52 and i just got the CH fighterstick USB and i'm using it with the X52 Throttle. The difference was night and day! The CH stick is noticeably more precise and IMO it has a much better feel. I also have tried the CH pro Throttle and I like it. Another plus to the Pro throttle is that you can mount it on the side and use it as a collective without adding on a pole or anything.

 

I can't comment on the cougar as i have never used them, though reviews seem kinda iffy.

 

If you are on the edge about CH, just get it, you won't regret it.

 

@Mip If this is going to be your first sim and your getting into things, then I highly reccomend the Saitek X52. Is a budget stick (about $60-$70) and It has alot of buttons along with a twist axis so you don't need rudder pedals. It was my first HOTAS and I liked it a lot.

[sobek]

Also, I've heard freetrack is just as capable as TrackIR, but you may want to research it more yourself.

 

No, unfortunately it's not. TrackIR has way better resolution (IIRC) and definately thrice the frame rate and it runs on specialised hardware so your cpu will hardly experinence any additional load. I can't really say how they compare, as i've never used TrackIR, but i find the low frame rate of FreeTrack a bit of a nuisance because it therefore lacks at responsiveness. That said, IMHO FreeTrack is still an incredible powerful tool, especially taking the price into account and if you fiddle around with the parameters a bit, it will work just fine.

[Mip...]

anyway, didn't want to high-jack the thread... carry on Mip!

regards.

 

I am more or less finished with my questions for today, cant think of more now. This isnt a thread only for me, so free to ask questions yourself and dont hide :thumbup:;)

 

 

Btw. if so many of u think that x45 / 52 are worth their money ill try to find a used one for sure, my maximum is 50€ for the moment i cant spend more :cry: Amazon sells x45 for 70€ and x52 for 100€, will try it later at ebay

Edited October 5, 2008 by Mip...

[GGTharos]

Then I suggest saving a few euro's a month for the next couple months until you can afford new; if you MUST buy a used one, go for an X-52 (prefferably Pro) and make sure you can return it if its faulty. And yes, they are worth that money!

[deviletk]

I used to have the x52 and i just got the CH fighterstick USB and i'm using it with the X52 Throttle. The difference was night and day! The CH stick is noticeably more precise and IMO it has a much better feel. I also have tried the CH pro Throttle and I like it. Another plus to the Pro throttle is that you can mount it on the side and use it as a collective without adding on a pole or anything.

 

I can't comment on the cougar as i have never used them, though reviews seem kinda iffy.

 

If you are on the edge about CH, just get it, you won't regret it.

 

Ah sounds great, thanks Aeroscout. CH it is! :)

 

How can you use the X52 throttle with the CH stick btw? Do they run on separate USB's? My X45 has a cable that goes into the stick, but maybe the X52 is different.

 

Regards

Alex

[CAT_101st]

No, unfortunately it's not. TrackIR has way better resolution (IIRC) and definately thrice the frame rate and it runs on specialised hardware so your cpu will hardly experinence any additional load. I can't really say how they compare, as i've never used TrackIR, but i find the low frame rate of FreeTrack a bit of a nuisance because it therefore lacks at responsiveness. That said, IMHO FreeTrack is still an incredible powerful tool, especially taking the price into account and if you fiddle around with the parameters a bit, it will work just fine.

 

you are correct about most of it. The frame rate in freetrack is dependint on the web cam you get. I bought a higher end Logitec and get up to 40-45 FPS in freetrack and properly set up I hardly notice the difrince. But with the standard web cam TIR is much better.

Here is a link to a video I made in FS9 with freetrack. This is after only 1 hour of setup time. After a day or two it is much better and smother now.

[Aeroscout]

Ah sounds great, thanks Aeroscout. CH it is! :)

 

How can you use the X52 throttle with the CH stick btw? Do they run on separate USB's? My X45 has a cable that goes into the stick, but maybe the X52 is different.

 

Regards

Alex

 

It's easy. Lockon recognizes multiple input devices so i just unplug the stick from the throttle, plug in the CH and assign the axies to the 2 different devices within lockon. It's the same way with rudder pedals.

 

If you decide to go all CH, then it doesn't matter as CH manager makes all the CH stuff you have plugged in look like one device to the computer. The CH programming software is not as intuitive, but MUCH more powerful!

[CAT_101st]

A side note for webcams too use with freetrack

 

http://www.free-track.net/english/hardware/webcam.php?PHPSESSID=1e546a40551e70990c8142be995ebc0d

I used the STX in video above.

[badaboom]

I think a Saitek X-52 is a pretty good stick & throttle for the $$,my next purchase would definitely be a TRK IR 4,Once you get used to it,you will never fly without it!

[RedTiger]

It's easy. Lockon recognizes multiple input devices so i just unplug the stick from the throttle, plug in the CH and assign the axies to the 2 different devices within lockon. It's the same way with rudder pedals.

 

If you decide to go all CH, then it doesn't matter as CH manager makes all the CH stuff you have plugged in look like one device to the computer. The CH programming software is not as intuitive, but MUCH more powerful!

 

Additionally, the throttle part of the x52 is the one that has the USB cable. The stick connects to the throttle with a PS2 connection. That alone allows you to use the throttle by itself. All CH products are they're own unit. You could, for example, use the Pro Throttle with a Saitek Cyborg.

[CAT_101st]

Ok for you guys that PMd me here is a updated video of my Freetrack. with better setings. the reason it gitters is due to the zoom in FS9. enjoy.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5SQDJgvzX8