A greater sensation of flight.

[Gentoo87]

Wishing for a greater effect on feel like I'm in the air. I feel like the head should respond a little more to aircraft input. I have the strongest neck known to man even with the G effects on. 

I'm not talking on this games realism, I feel I get a better sensation of flying from taxi to landing. The plane doesn't feel stable and true 100% of the time. You'll see the plane yaw and him haw around.
 

I'd like see a little more movement from take off to landing of my pilots perspective. Or at least give me a slider for said effects to give people a choice. In the clip below I have G effects on. The head just feels very stiff and so does the plane. The plane doesn't yaw or him haw around very much either. As the forces on the lifting body change.
 

 

[Fri13]

While in VR #1 rule is not to move the head as it cause nausea. But you could move the plane, keep the head stationary for the terrain for a slight lag and then start to follow the plane. That could work. And add proper G forces, blurring edges, losing colors, and then start dimming edges and you can move virtual head alot because you just created blinders that help against nausea.

[Gentoo87]

43 minutes ago, Fri13 said:

While in VR #1 rule is not to move the head as it cause nausea. But you could move the plane, keep the head stationary for the terrain for a slight lag and then start to follow the plane. That could work. And add proper G forces, blurring edges, losing colors, and then start dimming edges and you can move virtual head alot because you just created blinders that help against nausea.

My mention was to keep the ticker for g effects on head movement or add a slider for this very explanation

As this a sim, I just wished it felt more real. I've never flown a real jet, I have been limited to cessna's and piper's. There still a bit bumpy. Runways are not perfect surfaces. I feel the airframe shake from the visuals, I feel the runways have just been paved by a master contractor who's crew makes no mistakes. The ground being perfection as the material never settles. Everything feels to perfect. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Gentoo87

[Fri13]

10 minutes ago, Gentoo87 said:

Runways are not perfect surfaces. I feel the airframe shake from the visuals, I feel the runways have just been paved by a master contractor who's crew makes no mistakes. The ground being perfection as the material never settles. Everything feels to perfect. 

 

I think that depends from module and the runway.

 

I feel that Yak-52 has tendency to almost do in pieces on take-off. While some others or is like sliding on ice hockey ring.

 

I think that is reason as well why people love their jetseats as it gives them that rumble and shaking.

[Gentoo87]

I get no feed back from the runway on take off in vertical forces(bumpiness), just lateral as you describe the sliding around. You might be right, as the Mig 15 gives a great sensation of flight the whole time. Tomcat just shakes everywhere, I've seen them bounce on a taxiway. Other modules just feel like they're on rails. 

The sliding I get, we as sim pilots have no sensation of yaw. In a real plane you can feel slip your rudder footwork becomes an extension of that. The game you need to wait until your visually of axis to correct by then it's to late and you need to over correct.

1 hour ago, Fri13 said:

While in VR #1 rule is not to move the head as it cause nausea. But you could move the plane, keep the head stationary for the terrain for a slight lag and then start to follow the plane. That could work. And add proper G forces, blurring edges, losing colors, and then start dimming edges and you can move virtual head alot because you just created blinders that help against nausea.

One more idea in reference to what you describe in VR, I'm pretty sure IL 2 players do it in VR. I don't see why their minds and perception would be any different than those that fly here

Example:

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Gentoo87

[Lange_666]

14 hours ago, Gentoo87 said:

I get no feed back from the runway on take off in vertical forces(bumpiness), just lateral as you describe the sliding around. You might be right, as the Mig 15 gives a great sensation of flight the whole time. Tomcat just shakes everywhere, I've seen them bounce on a taxiway.

 

I just hate that shakyness of the Tomcat. Bought the module, flew it a bit and stuffed it.

I just can't stand my view on the monitor shaking all over the place while i physically don't.

I also can't understand why some people are able to fly with the natural head movement turned on for the same reason as above.

In real life your brain and body compensates these motions but they do not if you just use a monitor. Makes me quickly uncomfortable.

It would be different if a motion controller is used. 

[Gentoo87]

On 6/29/2021 at 5:47 AM, Lange_666 said:

 

I just hate that shakyness of the Tomcat. Bought the module, flew it a bit and stuffed it.

I just can't stand my view on the monitor shaking all over the place while i physically don't.

I also can't understand why some people are able to fly with the natural head movement turned on for the same reason as above.

In real life your brain and body compensates these motions but they do not if you just use a monitor. Makes me quickly uncomfortable.

It would be different if a motion controller is used. 

To each there own. I think this is a sim. I would like it simulated. give me the choice with a checkbox or a slider. Why play a simulator if the effects of an airplane aren't "simulated" are you really here for just the deltas and a pretty look? Real planes don't fly like this there a little shaky, there a little loose. Even jets with an FCS are constantly adjusting to change for the pilot. 

[Lange_666]

It's a personal taste but i just can't stand watching, not experiencing because that's something totally different, a shaking image. When experiencing you also feel the movement so your body and brain compensate. While watching a shaking image, there is no body/brain compensation which makes me feel rather quickly... bweuk...

Just put on your TV, select your favorite program and hit the shake F-14 button (if it would exist), i just wonder how long you will watch? If it was me, viewing would not last long, just a few seconds, even if the shake was a bare minimum.

There is already a setting "Head Movement by G-Forces in cockpit" which i also turn off. When watching a video from people who have that turned on and then go twisting in turning in a valley i quickly have something like ...Oh boy. Without undergoing the real movement...not for me.

Side note: Took me a while to get used to VR flying too.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Lange_666

[SharpeXB]

The truth is that your real life vision doesn’t shake. Rather an amazing physiological feat.. but if your real vision shook like a GoPro camera you’d never be even able to walk straight. And as far as head movement is concerned, the pilot can anticipate all the forces so in reality their head doesn’t flop around like a rag doll. You can watch an on board cockpit camera of a stunt plane with a passenger, the passenger’s head is moving but the pilot’s head isn’t. 
I personally have the head movement in DCS disabled because it feels like I’m a rag doll. Combine this with how twitchy sim planes are in general & constantly re-centering the TrackIR and it’s a bit too much. 

[Gentoo87]

On 7/1/2021 at 9:12 AM, SharpeXB said:

The truth is that your real life vision doesn’t shake. Rather an amazing physiological feat.. but if your real vision shook like a GoPro camera you’d never be even able to walk straight. And as far as head movement is concerned, the pilot can anticipate all the forces so in reality their head doesn’t flop around like a rag doll. You can watch an on board cockpit camera of a stunt plane with a passenger, the passenger’s head is moving but the pilot’s head isn’t. 
I personally have the head movement in DCS disabled because it feels like I’m a rag doll. Combine this with how twitchy sim planes are in general & constantly re-centering the TrackIR and it’s a bit too much. 

I'm not asking for shake, I'm asking for some sway. Plane shakes enough when you pull the trigger. Planes don't fly perfectly strait, and true. They require constant adjustment to the wind. It's not real or sim to fly strait and true in a spit or any plane under 300 kts. Pilots don't anticipate, we have a natural need to keep our heads upright and oriented with level ground. I have the G effects turned of as well. 

It looks like I am not clearly getting my point across, maybe I'm using the wrong vocabulary. I'd like to feel(which we can't) the plane actually fly. If the plane had some subtle bounce and yaw. Im not talking about making the cockpit look like your driving over a jeep trail. It would actually like like the aero would be doing it's job of keeping you in the sky. Right now as I fly. The planes don't require much adjustment accept for subtle changes in yaw to due power settings of the aircraft. Mind you this is for warbirds only as you have manual control of the surfaces. At no point should you be able to fly hands off on these old warbirds including the 51, and 47. Even well trimmed requires subtle adjustment to the wind. I can currently set my yaw trim in a spit and my power setting and take my hand off the stick and she will fly strait. Real planes don't do that. 

For late model jets with FCS. Not much input should be needed to fly strait and true due to its FCS. BUT!!! the plane should be shown to make constant adjustments on its own, very subtle but working FCS is moving surfaces to keep the Jet on the flight path marker. 

FCS making adjustments example: 

Warbird example of natural head movement. His head stays looking forward and true, but the plane yaws left right and subtle goes up and down as he manipulates the control surfaces to "fly" the plane.
 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Gentoo87

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, Gentoo87 said:

Warbird example of natural head movement. His head stays looking forward and true, but the plane yaws left right and subtle goes up and down as he manipulates the control surfaces to "fly" the plane.

Sure like you can see his head move when he works the wobble pump. But do you notice this in real life? Probably not and the effect in the game might be annoying or sickening, so people would just switch it off. The other reason his head movement seems so exaggerated compared to the game is the fisheye effect of the camera. 

3 hours ago, Gentoo87 said:

For late model jets with FCS. Not much input should be needed to fly strait and true due to its FCS

Hmmm have you tried air-to-air refueling? Quite a bit of effort required there.  

[SharpeXB]

Here’s a better example. Lots of us aren’t pilots but we can all relate to driving cars. If your virtual head bobbed like this in a racing sim the game would be unplayable. The real driver doesn’t perceive this like the GoPro does

 

[Gentoo87]

44 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Here’s a better example. Lots of us aren’t pilots but we can all relate to driving cars. If your virtual head bobbed like this in a racing sim the game would be unplayable. The real driver doesn’t perceive this like the GoPro does

 

False... just false...

Your still not understanding what I'm asking. I'm not asking for a bobble head. Our heads naturally stabilize themselves. I'm asking for the plane to move.

If you watch the driving footage. His head is stable to where he is looking. The car is bumping and yawing around while his focal point stays steady.

In DCS our heads are locked to the axis of the plane. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Gentoo87

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Gentoo87 said:

If you watch the driving footage. His head is stable to where he is looking. The car is bumping and yawing around while his focal point stays steady.

In DCS our heads are locked to the axis of the plane. 

I think in racing sims your head is locked to the car too and not the horizon. 
 

DCS already has this feature “Head Movement Due to G-Forces” which creates this effect. The problem IMO is that it pushes your head down in high G turns so in the WWII aircraft you can’t maintain a view through the gunsight. In reality no matter how many Gs your pulling I don’t think your spine compresses like a spring. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by SharpeXB

[Gentoo87]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I think in racing sims your head is locked to the car too and not the horizon. 
 

DCS already has this feature “Head Movement Due to G-Forces” which creates this effect. The problem IMO is that it pushes your head down in high G turns so in the WWII aircraft you can’t maintain a view through the gunsight. In reality no matter how many Gs your pulling I don’t think your spine compresses like a spring. 

 

I totally get that, I don't like using the switch either, there just just be a few degress of freedom of movement from the pilots camera position. So the plane can move and displace freely in the air without the feeling of my head being bolted to the seat.