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Posted

And does it matter?

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Some of the traditional, analog flight instruments (like attitude indicator, bank indicator, directonal gyro) are driven by gyros, which are spun by the airflow generated from a vacuum pump mounted on the engine.

 

Failure of the pump -> loss of suction/vacuum -> loss of these instruments (no idea if it's modelled in DCS though).

Edited by Art-J
  • Like 1

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Posted

To add to @Art-J's excellent answer: To increase safety, flight engineers looked for ways to make instruments more independent, so avoid a single point of failure. If electricity failed, and all instruments were driven by electricity, they all would go out at the same time even if they were redundant. So they came up with an alternate way to "power" some instruments: the pump (which is a vacuum pump, but you can also call it 'air pressure pump') that drives airflow to these instruments. So that pump does not require electricity, just that the engine is cranking. Of course, if you completely lose engine (no longer turns), electricity (generator dead) and battery, you are in trouble. Then again, if that happens, all you'd be doing then is landing the plane (best case scenario), so you won't be needing anything other than baro and airspeed (ram air). Let's just hope you still have hydraulics for the flaps and gears... 🤔

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Posted (edited)

I think you can deploy landing gear w/o hydraulics.

Why it is vacuum not simple over pressure,

I have idea how to explain it, by using vacuum pump all instruments are on the suction side of the pump, this prevents oil or any other debris like moisture condensation  getting in to instruments.

I may be wrong here just guessing. 

 

Edited by grafspee
  • Like 1

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Posted
On 7/1/2021 at 1:17 PM, grafspee said:

I think you can deploy landing gear w/o hydraulics.

 

Most planes can (gravity assisted), some can't. But if you lose hydraulics, your flaps and control surfaces may be the bigger problem. 

 

Also of note is that some planes carry a small generator (Ram Air Turbine) they can drop into the airstream to generate electricity or hydraulic pressure for exactly these cases. 

 

On 7/1/2021 at 1:17 PM, grafspee said:

Why it is vacuum not simple over pressure,

 

It is, it's simply named from the other side 🙂

 

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, cfrag said:

Also of note is that some planes carry a small generator (Ram Air Turbine) they can drop into the airstream to generate electricity or hydraulic pressure for exactly these cases. 

 

This wind turbine can power only the most crucial systems to be able to fly and navigate plane,  if it provide any hydraulic pressure, forget about using flaps or landing gear this turbine cant provide enough electricy to power main avionics systems in plane or things like flaps slats spoilers, landing gear.

This is based on A320 turbine.

Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Posted

https://www.aeronautical.co.za/gyro-vacuum-system-works
 

5 minutes ago, grafspee said:

This wind turbine can power only the most crucial systems to be able to fly and navigate plane,  if it provide any hydraulic pressure, forget about using flaps or landing gear this turbine cant provide enough electricy to power main avionics systems in plane or things like flaps slats spoilers, landing gear.

You really shouldn’t post regarding things you don’t know anything about. 

 

 

 

 

 

EDsignaturefleet.jpg

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, pmiceli said:

https://www.aeronautical.co.za/gyro-vacuum-system-works
 

You really shouldn’t post regarding things you don’t know anything about. 

 

I don't know what wind turbine has anything to do with vacuum powered system but ok.

This is exactly how i see it as on this diagram

Vacuum_System-300x159.jpg

This way, all systems are clear of debris.

And wind turbine is off topic if you didn't notice.

Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Posted
1 hour ago, cfrag said:

It is, it's simply named from the other side 🙂

No, it is not. Those vacuum powered instruments would clog  with oil or other debris when connected to pressure side of pump.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, pmiceli said:

https://www.aeronautical.co.za/gyro-vacuum-system-works
 

You really shouldn’t post regarding things you don’t know anything about. 

 

S9aiQQJ.png

This is what you get when RAT deploys. Manual control over control surfaces and fracture of electronics and displays.

Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Posted
2 hours ago, grafspee said:

No, it is not. Those vacuum powered instruments would clog  with oil or other debris when connected to pressure side of pump.

 

I simply meant that a vacuum pump can also be called a pressure pump because it creates a differential between in- and outflow. One side can be called 'vacuum side' (where the gas comes from, it's of course not a true vacuum just under-pressure relative to the other side), the other side is the 'pressure' side (only relative to the side where the gas comes from). Call it pressure pump or vacuum pump - for all intents and purposes here it's the same device; it's up to the engineers how to mount it to create airflow, and in which order they chain instruments and pump.

Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, cfrag said:

 

I simply meant that a vacuum pump can also be called a pressure pump because it creates a differential between in- and outflow. One side can be called 'vacuum side' (where the gas comes from, it's of course not a true vacuum just under-pressure relative to the other side), the other side is the 'pressure' side (only relative to the side where the gas comes from). Call it pressure pump or vacuum pump - for all intents and purposes here it's the same device; it's up to the engineers how to mount it to create airflow, and in which order they chain instruments and pump.

That is i know, my question was not about vacuum pump or pressure pump, but about suction and pressure side of the pump. Why instruments were placed on suction side. Because it does not matter if you want pressure difference do drive something it can be done in both way.

One thing matter in those precision and fragile instruments, that thay had to be feeded with clean air and suction side is the cleanest as can be.

Edited by grafspee

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

Posted
4 hours ago, grafspee said:

S9aiQQJ.png

This is what you get when RAT deploys. Manual control over control surfaces and fracture of electronics and displays.

 

I am type rated in seven jets, four of which have RATs. I have deployed RATs in actual flight and done a few hundred simulated RAT deployments in the sim as both pilot and instructor. 

 

 

 

 

EDsignaturefleet.jpg

Posted
1 hour ago, pmiceli said:

I am type rated in seven jets, four of which have RATs. I have deployed RATs in actual flight and done a few hundred simulated RAT deployments in the sim as both pilot and instructor. 

So you know that you cant power up everything with it.

System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor

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