Mixed Air to Ground Weapons Loadouts

[gnomechild]

After the latest updates to the weapons system in the Mirage, I am able to mix various different kinds of air-to-ground munitions with no issues. I was even able to effectively use every weapon in the following loadout: rockets on outer pylons, 4x Mk82 AIR on inner pylons, 4x Mk82 slick (ccrp) on wing root pylons, and GBU-24 (also worked with a Belouga) on center pylon. 

 

The manual claims the following, "not possible either to mix different kinds of air-to-ground weapons. Doing so (for instance rockets and bombs, Mk-82s and Belougas etc.) may result in system not being able to handle the configuration and thus not work properly." This was definitely modelled before, i.e not being able to use rockets with bombs loaded and a few other things.

 

I am not sure if this is a bug or if this is a revision to the previous behavior to make it more in line with reality, so posting here instead of bug reports. Trying to use a Super 530 with A/G weapons does result in an error as it should.  

 

(I'm hoping this is an update and not a bug, because it's awesome.)

Edited July 14, 2021 by gnomechild

[myHelljumper]

Hi,

 

From the documentation we have, we determined that mixing AG weapons is possible on the Mirage 2000C. This is however never done IRL due to employment doctrine.

 

The exception is the Super 530D missile that can't be mixed with AG ordinance.

 

The manual is not up to date on this, a rewrite is in the works right now.

 

Thanks .

Edited July 15, 2021 by myHelljumper

[El Chapo]

Hi,

 

Quote

From the documentation we have, we determined that mixing AG weapons is possible on the Mirage 2000C. This is however never done IRL due to employment doctrine.

 

I would say that it's slightly more complicated than that.

There is an official list of "opened" configuration for each aircraft type. In order to allow a given configuration, the aircraft builder has to do some flight tests, and garantee that the aircraft's behavior will be in accordance to what is expected by the customer.

Moreover, for each configuration, performance charts have to be determined (take-off distance, maximum cross-wind, climb rate, fuel consumption, etc...).

An additional work has to be done to ensure that on release, weapons will not cause harm to the aircraft itself or surrounding ordonance (ex: check that no gun shell link might hit a bomb under fuselage when firing air to ground gun).

 

For this reason, the limited set of available configurations are officially written on the "performance" part of the aircraft manuel, called UCB 110-02.

 

And I believe with a fairly high confidence that no mixed configuration is authorized in the Mirage 2000C's UCB 110-02...

 

[myHelljumper]

We can't limit loadouts based on what's cleared on the aircraft, we can only reproduce the software limitations.

 

Do you know if not cleared loadouts trigger a TAM error ?

 

Thanks.

[El Chapo]

Pilots are taught that a mixed configuration triggers a SNA error, but I have never seen by myself the effect of an unauthorised TAM code on the SNA (navigation and attack system, i.e. plane's computer) since nobody really "plays" with this type of things.

TAM code is preset by the ground crew before flight, and the pilot's task is to check that a correct code has been set during the preflight check. 

Therefore you virtually never see an incorrect TAM code on the plane.

For sure some have tried in the early days, but after some times it becomes a truth that nobody tries to challenge anymore...  

In any case I would suggest to remain on the old model of "no mixed configuration" for realism purpose. 

 

[myHelljumper]

Hi,

 

Our SMEs confirmed that mixing AG weapon is possible as long as the load-out is symmetrical (no 530 and wing tank) and you don't mix the 530 with AG weapons. But as said previously, no mixed load-out are "cleared" for the 2000C so IRL, it is never done.

 

We can't add limitations that are not present in the real aircraft to force people to use "cleared" load-outs but we will talk about this in the updated manual and only provide "cleared" load-outs presets.

[=36=Witcher]

So the wing tanks are an actual limitation right now?

[myHelljumper]

I'm not sure I understand....

 

What I meant was that you can't have a 530 on one wing and an wing tank on the other, the PCA would display an error. It's the same with everything, no mixing bomb types between the wings.

Edited July 17, 2021 by myHelljumper

[Avimimus]

On 7/15/2021 at 8:32 AM, myHelljumper said:

We can't limit loadouts based on what's cleared on the aircraft, we can only reproduce the software limitations.

 

I honestly prefer this approach.

 

With the F/A-18 they refused to add rockets used on the Canadian Hornets because, while the weapons are cleared for use on the U.S. variants of the F/A-18 as well, they aren't actually in the inventories. Yet they give us a Canadian skin. So we're given a Canadian skin without the Canadian weapons - and told that this is somehow more realistic because we have to fit into American doctrine. It is pretty frustrating.

 

I'd rather what you are doing - simply modelling the systems of the aircraft to the highest feasible fidelity and letting the operator decide how they are used!