Radar Help

[WinOrLose]

I had a little fly on the GS server and was struggling to get any TWS locks. I could see targets in RWS but when I changed to TWS nothing "locked" up.

 

I tried higher and lower targets, selecting "small" and also changed aspect without any luck. Am I doing something wrong? 

[Spiceman]

TWS and “lock” don’t really belong in the same sentence. You don’t lock targets in TWS. You build and maintain track files. So taking a step back….is it that you weren’t seeing any track files being built?

 

See if this might help in general..

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Spiceman

[WinOrLose]

Sorry if it didn’t explain properly. Yes no track files - ie no launch numbers assigned to any targets on the TID. 

[WinOrLose]

13 hours ago, Spiceman said:

TWS and “lock” don’t really belong in the same sentence. You don’t lock targets in TWS. You build and maintain track files. So taking a step back….is it that you weren’t seeing any track files being built?

 

See if this might help in general..

 

 

 

Thank you for the video link - now all I need is a RIO.

[captain_dalan]

Maybe the targets were hiding in the valleys and canyons? There's a lot of those on the Caucasus map, and as there is no mission to fly on the "airqauke" servers, people spend most of their time playing hide and seek at treetop levels. Also, maybe they were notching you all the time? Might want to play with the target aspect settings in such a case. 

[WinOrLose]

1 hour ago, captain_dalan said:

Maybe the targets were hiding in the valleys and canyons? There's a lot of those on the Caucasus map, and as there is no mission to fly on the "airqauke" servers, people spend most of their time playing hide and seek at treetop levels. Also, maybe they were notching you all the time? Might want to play with the target aspect settings in such a case. 

 

Cheers not 100% sure what airquake is but can make an educated guess. I combine it with some carrier ops and refueling and find the AA is a small part for me. The targets were at various heights from 5k to 35k and were mostly front aspect. They were all appearing on datalink but not on TWS? 

 

[draconus]

What range? Was the elevation scan correct?

 

[Karon]

On 8/2/2021 at 1:38 AM, WinOrLose said:

I had a little fly on the GS server and was struggling to get any TWS locks. I could see targets in RWS but when I changed to TWS nothing "locked" up.

 

I tried higher and lower targets, selecting "small" and also changed aspect without any luck. Am I doing something wrong? 

 

TWS is a peculiar radar mode with a number of limitations (check the manual for further details). Often adjusting the antenna elevation solves the issue. I understand you tried both higher and lower targets, but the TWS radar volume is so limited that it may not be enough unless you pretty much nail the angle.

Try 4B, it's usually simpler since the setting of the correct AZM is immediate. You can also find the correct angle in different ways, by using a mnemonic formula for instance, or a pre-calculated table, for example. When you are "seasoned" enough, you'll mostly rely on your guts.

 

There may be other parameters, such as the V_C switch but, on top of my head, none affect similar radar modes (as they are both HPRF PD modes) as much as the volume limitations mentioned above (Disclaimer: I'm terribly rusted, so I may be missing something).

 

Reiterating using your post:

Quote

Cheers not 100% sure what airquake is but can make an educated guess. I combine it with some carrier ops and refueling and find the AA is a small part for me. The targets were at various heights from 5k to 35k and were mostly front aspect. They were all appearing on datalink but not on TWS? 

Let's say you are flying at 35,000ft. Range let's say 35nm, to illuminate a target flying at 10,000ft you need to set the antenna at -7.8°. If the target is down at 5,000ft, then the angle is -9.3°.

Follow up question: were they appearing in LINK4A, but what about RWS? Were they appearing in such mode?

 

See if this helps mate.

[WinOrLose]

20 hours ago, draconus said:

What range? Was the elevation scan correct?

 

 

It was various ranges from 30 to 50 miles.

 

I'm not 100% sure on elevation as I believe jester has limited options. But I did try the options available.

 

Thanks.

[WinOrLose]

2 hours ago, Karon said:

 

TWS is a peculiar radar mode with a number of limitations (check the manual for further details). Often adjusting the antenna elevation solves the issue. I understand you tried both higher and lower targets, but the TWS radar volume is so limited that it may not be enough unless you pretty much nail the angle.

Try 4B, it's usually simpler since the setting of the correct AZM is immediate. You can also find the correct angle in different ways, by using a mnemonic formula for instance, or a pre-calculated table, for example. When you are "seasoned" enough, you'll mostly rely on your guts.

 

There may be other parameters, such as the V_C switch but, on top of my head, none affect similar radar modes (as they are both HPRF PD modes) as much as the volume limitations mentioned above (Disclaimer: I'm terribly rusted, so I may be missing something).

 

Reiterating using your post:

Let's say you are flying at 35,000ft. Range let's say 35nm, to illuminate a target flying at 10,000ft you need to set the antenna at -7.8°. If the target is down at 5,000ft, then the angle is -9.3°.

Follow up question: were they appearing in LINK4A, but what about RWS? Were they appearing in such mode?

 

See if this helps mate.

Thank you very useful as well as the link to the other document.

 

They were definitely appearing in datalink and pretty sure in RWS though not 100% sure. I tend to use RWS unless I am getting ready to fire.

 

The other point is I am just using Jester so this might have some bearing on the options available.

[captain_dalan]

21 hours ago, WinOrLose said:

 

They were all appearing on datalink but not on TWS? 

 

Tow possible cases here:
1. The target is outside your radar cone. Consult the before mentioned manual for limitation in radar coverage. You have a fairly narrow cone in which you can detect targets. At 30 miles (from memory, but it was a long time ago, so i may be wrong) you have about 10000ft above and bellow you if your scan elevation is neutral (at the horizon). You need to position your antenna (through Jester) up or down do scan above or bellow these limits. Even so, some targets will always be outside your scan if there is enough delta in altitude between them;
2. Targets pop on your radar, but no TWS track file is built. The target is beaming or heading away when your radar is set to nose geometry (aspect). Or is closing/heading away  too fast while your radar is in beam aspect. You may need to change the aspect to match. This is a fairly resent feature, that we didn't have to keep in mind before. Think if HPRF, MPRF and interleaved PRF in the F-15 (if you ever flew it), but you have to manage this through Jester. It's the BVR, radar options, just like the aspect and elevation options.

Babysitting Jester is a must in more complex environments, and it's a skill that takes some practice. 

[WinOrLose]

1 hour ago, captain_dalan said:

Tow possible cases here:
1. The target is outside your radar cone. Consult the before mentioned manual for limitation in radar coverage. You have a fairly narrow cone in which you can detect targets. At 30 miles (from memory, but it was a long time ago, so i may be wrong) you have about 10000ft above and bellow you if your scan elevation is neutral (at the horizon). You need to position your antenna (through Jester) up or down do scan above or bellow these limits. Even so, some targets will always be outside your scan if there is enough delta in altitude between them;
2. Targets pop on your radar, but no TWS track file is built. The target is beaming or heading away when your radar is set to nose geometry (aspect). Or is closing/heading away  too fast while your radar is in beam aspect. You may need to change the aspect to match. This is a fairly resent feature, that we didn't have to keep in mind before. Think if HPRF, MPRF and interleaved PRF in the F-15 (if you ever flew it), but you have to manage this through Jester. It's the BVR, radar options, just like the aspect and elevation options.

Babysitting Jester is a must in more complex environments, and it's a skill that takes some practice. 

Cheers - I'll report back after my next sortie.

 

One further question. How much will Jester do in TWS Auto or am I better off manually adjusting everything?

[draconus]

4 hours ago, WinOrLose said:

How much will Jester do in TWS Auto or am I better off manually adjusting everything?

He'll sometimes switch from ±20° 4 bar to ±40° 2 bar scan or vice versa, and that's it. It's called auto for a reason.

In manual - if you want specific target in the cone you have to ask Jester to move the cone there in both azimuth and elevation. I highly recommend to use elevation at range option.

If you're co-alt with bandits I use a little trick in TWS-Auto when it wanders off the side I don't want. I use short PLM push which basically changes radar mode for a moment and goes back to TWS-Auto reseting it to center... where I want it

[WinOrLose]

21 minutes ago, draconus said:

He'll sometimes switch from ±20° 4 bar to ±40° 2 bar scan or vice versa, and that's it. It's called auto for a reason.

In manual - if you want specific target in the cone you have to ask Jester to move the cone there in both azimuth and elevation. I highly recommend to use elevation at range option.

If you're co-alt with bandits I use a little trick in TWS-Auto when it wanders off the side I don't want. I use short PLM push which basically changes radar mode for a moment and goes back to TWS-Auto reseting it to center... where I want it

 

Thanks - good tip on the elevation at range.