ECM effect on Tomcat

[Raviar]

Is there any plane on the effect of the ECM on AWG9 ? any ETA ?

[QuiGon]

It's the feature I miss the most about the Tomcat. It's just totally unfair, that other Jets like the F-18, M2000C, F-15 and others suffer from jamming and the Tomcat just doesn't care.

[Spurts]

IIRC isn't the reason because ECM is just a reduction factor and BH built the AWG-9 to simulate actual input signals?  Meaning as soon as ECM is modeled in a realistic manner the AWG-9 will respond accordingly.

 

[QuiGon]

50 minutes ago, Spurts said:

IIRC isn't the reason because ECM is just a reduction factor and BH built the AWG-9 to simulate actual input signals?  Meaning as soon as ECM is modeled in a realistic manner the AWG-9 will respond accordingly.

 

I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be possible with the current DCS EW model to display some jam strobes if there is a jamming contact and thus hiding the contact on the DDD/TID until burn through is achieved, just like in the F-15 or MiG-21 for example.

Edited August 6, 2021 by QuiGon

[Spurts]

I understand what you mean, that from a functional standpoint we, the user, can get a workaround.  The issue is that ED radars are "Hey, is that target in my sweep pattern?  Based on the RCS can I see him?  is he jamming?  Okay, I will put "X" up on the radar display based on target speed and heading"  So internally that is all they are doing anyway.  HB radars are "I sent out a 2 degree beam, did it hit anything?  Based on his RCS how much energy got returned with the selected XMIT frequency and PRF?  What doppler shift occurred?  Okay, I'll put that into the range and doppler bins and see what the AWG-9 decides it can or cannot see and process based on the current mode."  Kind of like how the F-14 RWR will change where a threat is displayed based on the deflection of the tails, since that is where the antennas are.  Or how the Viggen had ground mapping radar for over a year before the Hornet.  The HB radars are honestly looking for simulated emissions, not binary flags for Jamming=Y/N or BurnThrough=Y/N.  This is why TWS is so much more finicky in the F-14 as opposed to the other jets, because it is supposed to be finicky.  This is why PD-STT vs P-STT matters for different types of missile guidance.  HB is basically refusing to reduce the fidelity of their sim for a Kludge fix, even if the end result is more realistic.

 

Again, that is my understanding.

[QuiGon]

41 minutes ago, Spurts said:

not binary flags for Jamming=Y/N or BurnThrough=Y/N. 

 

But this is what DCS provides for jamming and until ED implements a more sophisticated EW simulation HB has to deal with the current EW model. Putting a simple jamming strobe on the DDD/TID that hides a contact outside of burnthrough, just like in other aircraft like the F-15 or MiG-21 is a simple solution and still much better than ignoring jamming entirely and thus giving the Tomcat and unfair and unrealistic advantage.

Edited August 6, 2021 by QuiGon

[Spurts]

I understand your viewpoint @QuiGon, I even agree.  I'm not saying we shouldn't have a cheap fix, just that I don't expect we will get one.

[Kula66]

14 hours ago, QuiGon said:

But this is what DCS provides for jamming and until ED implements a more sophisticated EW simulation HB has to deal with the current EW model. Putting a simple jamming strobe on the DDD/TID that hides a contact outside of burnthrough, just like in other aircraft like the F-15 or MiG-21 is a simple solution and still much better than ignoring jamming entirely and thus giving the Tomcat and unfair and unrealistic advantage.

It may be very cleverly implemented, but unless ED are about to switch shortly to a more sophisticated ECM model across the board, its seems a very odd way to work; you can't just do your own incompatible thing - no wonder there is so much Tomcat hate in some parts of this community.

[QuiGon]

  

1 hour ago, Naquaii said:

As for the ECCM it's something very much on our list and a must for when we launch out of early access, but we also don't want to rush it as we don't want it to appear as the simple on/off switch it currently is in DCS but something a bit more realistic on the displays. And to be perfectly fair, few aircraft have launched into early access with ECCM functionality at the get go and let's not forget we currently are in early access.

 

Sounds good

I just hope it doesn't take too long anymore