Fighting at altitude. Help

[baylor703]

I have good experience with ww2 birds across the two major titles, so this is a bit embarrassing, but I have been playing mp in a server where you may escort at very high alts of around 30k feet, and am having trouble. In the past I played mp only on the other one, and high alt fights simply didn't happen. DCS is a real adjustment.

 

I know that engagements tend to happen in "slow motion" up high, that you have to be much gentler on the stick etc, but I can't even come close to competing at altitude flying a plane like a p51 or p47. If I get into a turn fight with a luftwaffe plane at those alts, they are basically on my six by the first circle, even if our energy states are the same. I feel like pulling any on the stick causes accelerated stalls, while others can get much better turn performance, albeit not as good if they were lower.

 

I'm also, due to mainly playing the other sim, embarrassingly ignorant of how engine management works at high alts, and this may be related to why I am having issues. As you climb and manifold pressure drops, is engine wear modeled according to manifold pressure, or how hard you are running the throttle? For instance, let's say that I broke the wire and was running WEP on the throttle, but my manifold pressure could only reach 61 at that altitude... is that the equivalent of running military power (15 mins), or war emergency power (5 mins)? Or let's say I pushed the throttle all the way up to the wire, but my manifold could only reach 46. Would I be running max continuous? 

[grafspee]

First if you experience accelerated stalls, then you pull stick too hard you have to be extremely gentle.

Once you are at alt let say at 30k you can fire wall throttle all day long 3000rpm and max throttle. From my experience using more then 61" some times generate weird engine fails after some time, so personally i don't use WEP at all, unless i have no other choice. I usually don't go below 200mph IAS

Also there is a bug which disconnects cockpit levers responsible of operating RAM air, so you probably experiencing pretty large lose in P-51 high alt performance, because unless you asign cold air to axis there is no way to move this important lever in to RAM position.

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by grafspee

[baylor703]

So, if I'm understanding correctly, engine wear is tied to manifold pressure rather than throttle position. Thanks. 

 

I'll have to look into the ram air issue. It is tied to a button on my stick, not an axis. It will either go full forward or back. It does feel like enemy fighters will get about a time and a half the  turn rate I'm getting. In other words, they can use about a time and a half as much stick input, where I will get an accelerated stall at two thirds of what they are using.

Edited August 23, 2021 by baylor703

[grafspee]

8 hours ago, baylor703 said:

So, if I'm understanding correctly, engine wear is tied to manifold pressure rather than throttle position. Thanks. 

 

I'll have to look into the ram air issue. It is tied to a button on my stick, not an axis. It will either go full forward or back. It does feel like enemy fighters will get about a time and a half the  turn rate I'm getting. In other words, they can use about a time and a half as much stick input, where I will get an accelerated stall at two thirds of what they are using.

 

Buttons binds don't work last time i checked.

I just checked button binds does not work, only via axis command, if you don't have axis to spare you can use axis with modifier for this.

So you are missing a lot of power at high alt. Once you solve this RAM air problem, you should be competitive at high alt vs K-4 and better then D-9 or A-8

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by grafspee

[baylor703]

Fixed the ram air by modding the .lua as suggested in the thread. That needs to be fixed asap- can't believe it has been going on since April. It's exasperated by the fact that it's paired with a working animation, because unless you know specifically what to look for, you'd never know anything was wrong.

[grafspee]

@baylor703 Yeah, i came a cross this issue because i often fly high and i noticed that MP was very low for altitude which i was flying. Just remember that you will have to re-edit this .lua file evey game update.

[Nealius]

Is this versus AI or other players? I find the AI to overperform at altitude. 

[grafspee]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

Is this versus AI or other players? I find the AI to overperform at altitude. 

Are kidding ? AI sucks hard at alt, since it can't  enter never ending vertical loop it sucks a lot.

AI drags me down every time.

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by grafspee

[Nealius]

The 190s in the Big Show campaign can turn quite hard at altitude....the only thing saving me is the Spit's turn rate. The only reason they drag me low is because I have to do a low-yo-yo to close within firing range. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Nealius

[grafspee]

K-4 can turn but 190 it is juts peace of cake at alt.

[baylor703]

Did you fix the ram air issue? grafspee's suggestion made a tremendous difference for me. I was constantly riding the envelope at alt- to the point of barely being able to turn. No longer.

 

EDIT: You're in a spit, my mistake. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by baylor703

[S. Low]

Be above the bombers and out in front so you can turn around dive on the 109s as they approach and then zoom back up. Hopefully the bombers will help you too, and ideally you should have a wingman to cover your six as you zoom up.  It's easier said than done. I'm new to messing around with the p51 (lawn darted in a dive the other day because I didn't pay attention to max dive speed lol!) and engine management up there is difficult in itself, let alone fighting. But even at really high alts like that you should still approach it from a BnZ perspective. IMO anyways.

[Nealius]

On 8/26/2021 at 7:00 PM, baylor703 said:

Did you fix the ram air issue? grafspee's suggestion made a tremendous difference for me. I was constantly riding the envelope at alt- to the point of barely being able to turn. No longer.

 

I tried the fix and instantly saw a huge engine power improvement. But this did not translate to speed at all. In the low 20,000 block I can barely maintain above 250mph, where even a 2G turn results in instantaneous and violent wing stalls despite gingerly moving my 20cm stick. I may have to play with pitch curves or get a buttkicker seat so I get some buffet feedback. The lateral FOV in VR isn't enough to see the canopy frame shake under buffet so the stalls come without warning. 

[grafspee]

I can do 2G constant turn at 30k in P-51, if you cant do more then 2G at 250mph indicated at 20k that this is something way wrong.

Edited September 26, 2021 by grafspee

[Nealius]

Exactly. I don’t know if it’s over sensitivity in my stick where I’m pulling 2g and have a spike that pushes it to 2.5 or 3 and snap rolls me or what. That’s why I’ll mess with curves first, as that really helped me on the Spit and Mosquito. 
 

Yep found my two-fold problem. First is I needed curves even for my long-throw stick. I’m now no longer snap rolling like I used to. The second problem is that my snap rolls now are induced by the AI flying below 200kts when attacking bombers. I try to saddle in behind them, get a few shots off, then try to kill speed to reposition for more shooting and, since they’re flying unrealistically slow, I snap roll in the process. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Nealius