Phoenix initial guidance

[BreaKKer]

Just looking at a bunch of video of the AIM-54 phoenix, from early development YAIM-54s all the way to AIM-54Cs being fired in Fighter Flings, I noticed a few differences between our phoenix's initial guidance to real life. 
For ideal comparison, look at timestamp 5:00 and watch the phoenix do it's magic compared to mine.

1. Our phoenix is ejected way too fast off the bottom of the jet. The phoenix is released from the bottom of the jet, not pushed off, so the phoenix ends up super far underneath the jet when ignition starts in DCS.
2. Ignition is slightly late. The phoenix from any real life footage activates just barely under the ventral fins and points the nose down with gravity, as compared to DCS where the missile tries to go nose high as soon as ignition starts. This may be actually correct and my point on #1 just dramatizes it. 
3. Initial nose up of the phoenix is too early. From footage, the phoenix is much further out in front of the jet, 10-30 feet infront of the nose, as compared to my footage, where the phoenix lofts underneath the jet
4. The phoenix is teleported into the loft. You can see in the DCS footage, that the phoenix just magically starts climbing at timestamp 0:06, like it lost 5 degrees of AOA in an instant, compared to the real life footage, where the phoenix sits nose high for a few seconds before the AOA of the missile settles down and the loft starts to begin.

Considerations:
-The phoenix is told to activate later so it doesn't collide with the player/AI aircraft
-The phoenix is all coded in the initial guidance phase to fly a certain path, regardless of what the model and telemetry date shows the missile doing
-The guidance is still the old API, so it might just not be finished

Other sources
https://youtu.be/6cwYule1KyQ

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by BreaKKer

[IronMike]

Thank you. Would you be so kind and time stamp the comparisons, please? Would be much appreciated. We'll take a look.

[DSplayer]

5 hours ago, IronMike said:

Thank you. Would you be so kind and time stamp the comparisons, please? Would be much appreciated. We'll take a look.

In the promotional film, Phoenixes are fired at 3:24, 3:34, 3:39, and 5:01. A Sparrow is launched at 4:49 and 8:35. A missile that probably (and probably wrong assessment by me) is an AIM-9 is launched at 8:47. Those should be all the missile time stamps.

--

Watching this AIM-54C promotional video shows that the 54's motor lights pretty early after being released from the pylon. There is even slowed down footage.

 

 

 

Phoenixes are launched at 0:08, 1:06, 1:34, 1:55 (glove pylon launch), 2:02, and 2:17.

Edited September 15, 2021 by DSplayer

[IronMike]

Thank you, kind Sir, it is much appreciated!

[Golo]

On 9/13/2021 at 11:10 PM, BreaKKer said:

The phoenix is released from the bottom of the jet, not pushed off, so the phoenix ends up super far underneath the jet when ignition starts in DCS.

You can clearly see the two ejector pins, sticking out of the LAU-93 launcher in the 54C promo video above. Force of the ejectors is maybe too much in DCS, but Phoenix is definitely ejected from launcher.

"The LAU-93/A guided missile launcher carries and launches the AIM-54 Phoenix missile, and is installed on the weapons rail of the F-14 aircraft. The launcher provides electrical and coolant connections between the weapons rail and the missile. The mechanical components of the launcher consist of a gas-operated, hook-opening linkage and two ejectors, a ground safety lock and positive launch pin, coolant, and electrical umbilicals. The launcher can also be installed on the wing-mounted multipurpose pylon using an LAU-93/A adapter."

[IronMike]

3 minutes ago, Golo said:

Force of the ejectors is maybe too much in DCS

 

 

This is the part I want us to investigate, but also not sure if we can define the force of ejectors, or if DCS does that for us.

[IronMike]

On 9/13/2021 at 10:10 PM, BreaKKer said:

1. Our phoenix is ejected way too fast off the bottom of the jet. The phoenix is released from the bottom of the jet, not pushed off, so the phoenix ends up super far underneath the jet when ignition starts in DCS.
 2. Ignition is slightly late. The phoenix from any real life footage activates just barely under the ventral fins and points the nose down with gravity, as compared to DCS where the missile tries to go nose high as soon as ignition starts. This may be actually correct and my point on #1 just dramatizes it. 

 

 3. Initial nose up of the phoenix is too early. From footage, the phoenix is much further out in front of the jet, 10-30 feet infront of the nose, as compared to my footage, where the phoenix lofts underneath the jet
 4. The phoenix is teleported into the loft. You can see in the DCS footage, that the phoenix just magically starts climbing at timestamp 0:06, like it lost 5 degrees of AOA in an instant, compared to the real life footage, where the phoenix sits nose high for a few seconds before the AOA of the missile settles down and the loft starts to begin.

 

Ok, so we did a quick investigation of these and the first two points we can control (and will try to adjust a bit better), however the second two points we have no control over in DCS and thus cannot adjust them. (Just a quick sidenote: the phoenix is indeed ejected, not released however.)

Thank you again for bringing this to our attention.

Edited September 15, 2021 by IronMike

[BreaKKer]

Much appreciated @DSplayer. Glad to see this post got some attention

[LanceCriminal86]

Here's a couple more shots, starting at the 3:30 or so mark from VF-24 and VF-211, both AIM-7 and AIM-54C shots at 4:05: