How to get 22 nm ranges from GBU-54?

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I can hardly get 6 -8 nm from very high altitude release from AV-8B/NA. But 6-8nm is well within range of HQ-7, SA-15, SA-19, Buk, Kub, and S-300. Even SA-8 take a shot, though they cant seem to hit anything above 15K. Only AAA, MANPADS and SHORAD IR cant get me. Maybe I am expecting too much. I am hoping that its my flight and release profiles. I can get fixed target centered on TPOD and lase it for accurate ranging from about 15-20 nm. Program the weapon , and wait for IN RNG. But it only comes when I am in single digits in HUD stated range.

[JIGGAwest]

19 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I can hardly get 6 -8 nm from very high altitude release from AV-8B/NA. But 6-8nm is well within range of HQ-7, SA-15, SA-19, Buk, Kub, and S-300. Even SA-8 take a shot, though they cant seem to hit anything above 15K. Only AAA, MANPADS and SHORAD IR cant get me. Maybe I am expecting too much. I am hoping that its my flight and release profiles. I can get fixed target centered on TPOD and lase it for accurate ranging from about 15-20 nm. Program the weapon , and wait for IN RNG. But it only comes when I am in single digits in HUD stated range.

What speed and altitude are you making these attempts? I can usually get +15nm releases above 28k feet.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Well that depends on payload and GW at time of release. But between 350 and 420 KIAS. Sometimes 320. AV-8B with TPOD, DECM, GAU-12A, 2 X AIM-9M, 2 X (3X GBU-54), and PKWS on port inner pylon, and 2500 lbs of fuel, is pretty draggy.  I release only on INRNG que. I get that between at 22-25K at 9NM and release happens below 8NM TGT RNG.

[JIGGAwest]

15 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

Well that depends on payload and GW at time of release. But between 350 and 420 KIAS. Sometimes 320. AV-8B with TPOD, DECM, GAU-12A, 2 X AIM-9M, 2 X (3X GBU-54), and PKWS on port inner pylon, and 2500 lbs of fuel, is pretty draggy.  I release only on INRNG que. I get that between at 22-25K at 9NM and release happens below 8NM TGT RNG.

I'll run some tests and post a screenshot. I may also be lofting near the release cue to grab little extra range. I know for sure I'm releasing at a higher altitude than your typical drops.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I admit, I was not lofting. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but if my nose is rising, I loose the release Que ring on HUD. Can GBU-54 or GBU-31/38 be lofted from low altitude ?

[DmitriKozlowsky]

OK my two attempts at lofting JDAM GBU-32V3 have failed miserably. There are two issues, which, perhaps are realistic, but I hate.

Issue 1 is slewing TPOD at long ranges to find target is slow and inaccurate. If target is outside visibility range of globals, it does not show up on TPOD zoom. Which IMHO it should. 

Issue 2 Is after locating target getting accurate D+M and programming JDAM. Pull to loft causes, in my case for TPOD and fire control to slew off and loose target. Even though I still get IN RNG que for JDAM, with aircraft, at 45 pitch up, I release weapon, the weapon either does not guide laterally and missies, or falls short. So there is a disconnect that I am not sure if its user pilot. the process, or understanding of process of lofting JDAM.

Issue 3 is aerodynamic performance of Harrier. After loft release, I bank and break, to separate from target area. At 45-50 pitch in bank the aircraft engine surges and I loose nose authority. The aircraft does its own thing. At times at 6G turn, my wing explodes. Not from SAM or AAA, or threat air, airframe fails. Half of stbd wing or port, never both at same time, comes off and there is a engine fire, and total loss of control. Time to bail!

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Here is a full profile mission where JDAM falls shore despite being released with IN RNG HUD que. Sorry its a full length mission, so we can see every detail from start up to T/O to target selection, approach, release , break away from tgt, and recovery. I kind of flipped the VTOL landing a bit. But other aspects of mission , I thought, were done correctly.

It will be a great day when mission tracks work like ACMI files, that can be controlled like old VCRs, with FF, Rev, and frame X frame.

JDAM_Fall_Short_AV_8B_NA.trk

[JIGGAwest]

sorry, very difficult to watch tracks. And it looks like I was a bit off in my range estimates. 

 

I'm curious if anyone else can get longer accurate ranges...

 

I was able to do a test. I could drop at about 14.6nm 32k feet. it was marginally successful damage, but not a direct hit.

subsequent drops showed similar results. The most accurate drops being 6-12nm at a high percentage release cue.

I'll have a youtube video uploaded if you would like to see the results. 

[DmitriKozlowsky]

15 hours ago, JIGGAwest said:

sorry, very difficult to watch tracks. And it looks like I was a bit off in my range estimates. 

 

I'm curious if anyone else can get longer accurate ranges...

 

I was able to do a test. I could drop at about 14.6nm 32k feet. it was marginally successful damage, but not a direct hit.

subsequent drops showed similar results. The most accurate drops being 6-12nm at a high percentage release cue.

I'll have a youtube video uploaded if you would like to see the results. 

Now 6-12nm HUD TGT RNG is something I get good results with. But I am vulnerable to any decent SAM, even HQ-7. HQ-7 can nail me at 22K at 8nm (ground track range). So all in all JDAM does not offer standoff in DCS except in low SHORAD/MANPADS/AAA threat environment. A typical 1990's to mid 2K's battlefield 'red' SAM, except SA-8, such as SA-15, SA-19, HQ-7, Kub, Buk, and mighty S-300 eat Harrier during attack run. SEAD suppourt is a requirement. DCS level Tornado IDS/ECR, EA-6B Prowler , EF-4G, F-111G, or cosmic F/A-18G would be so cool for SEADhead wild weasel personas. As such F/A-18C and F-16CM are decent HARM launchers. I doubt ED can deploy a plausibly accurate SEAD equipment into DCS. Not because of ED, but this SEAD is classified so high. All ED can do is just reduce PK of SAM missile or AA radar missile, to single digits, to emulate e-war environment.

 

[Aernov]

Is it even possible to get such ranges from what is pretty much a Mk.82 with extra stuff (which doesn't help it glide or makes it more aerodynamic)? Dropping it from like 30000 ft at Mach 1.5?

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Reading Air Forces Monthly magazine. Articles going back 10-12 years state or allude to 20 nm ranges for JDAMs dropped at high subsonic high altitude from B-1B. B-2A, F-15E, F/A-18E/F. Harrier GR7, F-16C/D/E Block 50+ , hit targets 22nmfrom launch point.