Getting Group Command to work better?

[Nealius]

I'm having issues getting the Group Command [G] to work well. 

I will use the command to tell the armored column to advance 100m ahead of my while I split off to pincer or investigate something, but they either just sit there or only advance a couple meters, then stop well short of the location I wanted them to go.

Other times, only one unit out of the group will advance where I want it, and the others just sit there in the back. 

The only reliable way I've gotten them to advance precisely where I want them is by using the F10 map, but then I get booted from the vehicle I'm controlling and have to commandeer it again. If I commandeer the lead vehicle, the waypoint I just set via F10 map somehow gets deleted.

What's the best way of controlling these guys?

[Callsign112]

I am haven't seen the behavior you are describing, and would not be able to check it in game till much later, but some things do stand out as a possible explanation.

To start, try giving the Group command when you have Autopilot activated to see if all the units follow your Group command. Next, deactivate Autopilot and then give a Group command that is more than 200 m away from the tank you are giving the command from. If you can get Group command to work while in Autopilot, and you can get all the other tanks in your platoon to follow your Group command when the way point is more than 200 m from your tank, then maybe there is a minimum distance that the Group command works with. Either that, or could it have something to do with the distance your tank is from the rest of the platoon?

I'm not sure why you are getting booted from the tank you are in direct control of just because you open the F10 map. That doesn't make any sense to me, because you are supposed to be able to use the F10 map whenever you need to. I go back and forth between the F10 map and F1 Gunner view continuously.

But the issue regarding setting a way point for a vehicle in the F10 map, and then taking direct control of it does automatically cancel the way point because you are now driving the unit. The vehicle no longer follows its way point, but will go where you drive it to.

[Nealius]

I figured out my issue with the F10 map and jumping back into the vehicle.

I tested the Autopilot theory, and after giving the [G] command the other units in my group would move to the location, but as soon as I exited Autopilot they stopped in the location shown in the screenshot (I'm in the Sherman off-road). In Autopilot I am unable to control my vehicle's movement. I can only control the weapons, so if I set Autopilot to send my squad somewhere I can't move until they reach their destination.

From the F10 map, if I set a waypoint while maintaining control of my vehicle, the 2nd vehicle will move to the waypoint but the remaining 2 in the group stay back an excessive distance, and won't move until the vehicle furthest in advance has almost reached the waypoint.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Nealius

[Callsign112]

@Nealius, I am unable to reproduce what you are seeing.

A couple things though.

When you are in Autopilot ("C" key), you control your vehicle's movement using the Group command (green arrow that appears when pressing and holding the "G" key). This works whether the vehicle you are directly controlling is a single vehicle group, or 1 of a number of vehicles. You should see slightly different behavior depending on whether the vehicle you are directly controlling is the primary vehicle in the group or not. So I'm not sure why your own vehicle does not move after you position the little green arrow using the LMB while pressing and holding the "G" key. Are you sure your in Autopilot? You have to hit the "C" key to put your own vehicle in Autopilot (you will see "Autopilot" designated at the bottom right hand side of the screen when active). The Group command works for the other vehicles in your group even when Autopilot is not activated. Exiting Autopilot (pressing "C" key again) before you reach your assigned way point is like cancelling it, so it makes sense that all the other vehicles in the group stop.

I think I can explain and help answer the question you raise in the OP though, and the behavior you are seeing in the F10 map view. It has to do with the formation your group is in. When you place a group in the ME, the default for way point 0 is an Off-road column formation. You can change a groups starting formation at way point 0 in the ME. I put together a couple of examples to demonstrate how formation affects group behavior in the attached video.

In the first example, I give a "follow the leader" command which also uses a column formation by default. Units in a column formation obviously follow one after the other, and when you give a column the "follow me" command, they also mimic what you do. In the first example I do a sort of dog leg pattern with a left turn. This causes the column formation to become very spaced out as each of the following units waits for its preceding unit to make the left turn. So it is possible that not all of the units in a group will move when the set way point distance is too short depending on the command you gave and the position of your vehicle in relation to the other units in your group.

To see how the position of the command vehicle affects Ai behavior, notice in the video what happens when I give a group command way point from a position behind the formation, and when I give the same command when my vehicle is in front of the formation. When my vehicle was behind the formation, I joined the column as the 3rd vehicle (distance dependent). When I give the same command from the front of the formation, the column forms up on me.

To use "Cruise Control", simply press the "T" key once your vehicle is moving at the desired speed. You no longer have to continuously press the "W" key (gas pedal) for movement.

To recap the ways we control unit movement in Combined Arms, we can either assign way points to a group from within the F10 map view, or by direct control. Directly controlling a primary unit can be further broken down into simultaneous movement with other vehicles in the controlled group, and independent movement from other vehicles in the controlled group.

 Autopilot (press "C" key) - All vehicles in the controlled group (including your own) move to the assigned way point using the "G" key.

Command menu (press "\" key, then "F3") - All vehicles in the controlled group will move together/follow your vehicle.

Cruise control (press "T" key) - All vehicles in the controlled group will move to the assigned way point using the "G" key independently of your vehicle.

Direct control ( press "W, A, S, D" keys) - All vehicles in the controlled group will move to the assigned way point using the "G" key independently of your vehicle.

In addition to these movement options, the groups formation and behavior can be changed from within the "Command Menu" ("\" key), or F10 map view.

I hope this helps.

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Callsign112

[Nealius]

I always control my vehicle with the key commands rather than letting it drive itself, which is why I thought I "lost control." I understood the [G] command to be a command to the other units in the group, not for my (lead) vehicle since it's under my control. 

Waypoint 0 was on road, column, and I used the F3 command immediately after entering the vehicle, so that shouldn't have been an issue. For some reason the AI Sherman's wouldn't drive faster than 6mph even if I were doing 12, and I always had to wait for them to catch up. 

The only way I could get them to pincer was to use [G] as a de facto hold command, split off to set up my position, then use the F10 map to assign them a waypoint on-road. The third and forth vehicles would always wait to advance after the second (basically element lead) vehicle had already separated quite a distance away from them, which was also true at mission start. If I tried to set a waypoint off road all sorts of ghosting-through-buildings lunacy insued. 

[Callsign112]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

I always control my vehicle with the key commands rather than letting it drive itself, which is why I thought I "lost control." I understood the [G] command to be a command to the other units in the group, not for my (lead) vehicle since it's under my control. 

Waypoint 0 was on road, column, and I used the F3 command immediately after entering the vehicle, so that shouldn't have been an issue. For some reason the AI Sherman's wouldn't drive faster than 6mph even if I were doing 12, and I always had to wait for them to catch up. 

The only way I could get them to pincer was to use [G] as a de facto hold command, split off to set up my position, then use the F10 map to assign them a waypoint on-road. The third and forth vehicles would always wait to advance after the second (basically element lead) vehicle had already separated quite a distance away from them, which was also true at mission start. If I tried to set a waypoint off road all sorts of ghosting-through-buildings lunacy insued. 

Your absolutely right about the group command. I think what's happening is when you place your lead vehicle in Autopilot with the "C" key, it becomes part of the group and moves with them. But if you are not in Autopilot, the group command goes only to the other tanks in your platoon, and your free to take another direction.

But in terms of units that look like they are not moving/moving slow, try using another formation like row for example just to see the difference. You should see all vehicles start out at nearly the same time, and reach the selected speed much quicker.

Each formation has a slightly different spacing to it. If you place a unit in the mission editor and then make multiples of it, jut measure the distance between each unit. Its like 40 meters. I'm not sure, but I think it has something to do with path finding. Having more distance between each unit helps prevent them from crashing into each other as they change speed to make turns and what not. But 40 meters seems a bit extreme when placing infantry using the On-road way point.  

Splitting columns up can also help make it easier to move them sometimes. Like if I need a column of 6 vehicles, depending on what I want to do, I sometimes split them into 2 group of 3. I can switch back and forth between the two lead vehicles, or just set the path for one, and direct control the other.