DML - Mission Creation Toolbox [no Lua required]

[cfrag]

4 hours ago, DD_Friar said:

As soon as I add a group, the sound does not play.

... but the message text appears, doesn't it? If that is the case, this may be DCS issue that's been reported in a couple of threads:

 

 

messenger invokes soundToGroup and soundToUnit at the same time that it invokes outTextFotGroup and outTextForUnit, so if you receive one but not the other, it's very likely a DCS issue (and of course you have made sure that the sound file is loaded... ) 

 

[SPAS79]

4 hours ago, cfrag said:

... but the message text appears, doesn't it? If that is the case, this may be DCS issue that's been reported in a couple of threads:

 

 

messenger invokes soundToGroup and soundToUnit at the same time that it invokes outTextFotGroup and outTextForUnit, so if you receive one but not the other, it's very likely a DCS issue (and of course you have made sure that the sound file is loaded... ) 

 

Can attest to that. I have used another method (DCSServBot) to do the same and got the same result. Definitely a DCS issue.

 

[bitboy]

cfrag,

A couple of quick questions......all related to DML functionality (or expected functionality), with Multiplayer

1) I've noticed the Smoke module....works flawless in the mission editor (also arguably the easiest thing ever to setup). But in Multiplayer more often than not, the Smoke doesn't start right away, in fact it usually starts randomly up to a minute or more at times. While this is not a major issue, it is strange, curious if you've seen this behavior before? 

2) Helo Troops spawning: So I have a mission where I setup a FARP with a spawn zone for Helo troops (requestable). Several test runs in the mission editor, all is good. Run in multiplayer today and, although the F10 Comms menu says "Deploy troops"....they never appear and we never had the option to load them in the F10 Comms menu. We also had the "No troops nearby" message. (Also tried turning the auto load option on just in case, and even after numerous requests, no indication of troops being loaded and definitely no troops on board to deploy later). Worked fine in the ME, no joy for some reason in Multiplayer. ??

3) Lastly, in the same mission noted above (with the Helo Troops issue), I had two FARPs setup using the DCS Invisible FARP along with the FARP Tent, Fuel Depot, Ammo and Command bunker. The helo spots were all well within 200 feet of the center of the invisible FARP. However only one of the FARPs would allow players to rearm-refuel? Both FARPs were identical except for the names. Now normally I wouldn't post this particular question here because I think it's a DCS bug, but I tested further with the same FARP setups in a vanilla mission with no DML modules loaded....and the FARPs behaved normally, in both the ME and in Multiplayer. ?? Curious is DML doing something else in the background that might affect this behavior at a FARP? 
 

Thanks in advance.

[Recluse]

I guess I should just TRY IT, but I will ask    Can CLONE ZONES be nested?

 

- I want to build a generic FARP CLONE ZONE to spawn when a nearby base changes ownership to allow capture helos.  Wanted to just build one FARP and use it as the SOURCE.

- I want to also spawn AI helos on the farp with Waypoints to the nearby base, so I wanted to clone the specific helo with the waypoints separately from the FARP source. (hence  nesting the HELO Cloner inside the FARP cloner,)  FOR AI, I don't really need a Real FARP, but it adds a bit to the immersion and I am thinking that CLIENT Helos can use the FARP to pick up troops to capture the bases if they choose to do so instead of letting the AI do it.

- I considered spawning all the necessary helos along with the SOURCE farp and using other flags (in the ME) to PUSH the AI Task to control an uncontrolled helo (or some other method) so it will fly to the right spot.  I wasn't sure if providing WPs to the  helos to the desired bases in the FARP CLONEZONE, which would be distant from any of the bases would still work. I would still have to set a specific flag to start off the correct helo on its way. Again I started to test this, but I thought I would ask before I went down a rabbit hole that I couldn't climb out of.

 

Thanks!

Edited February 4, 2024 by Recluse

[cfrag]

7 hours ago, bitboy said:

1) I've noticed the Smoke module....works flawless in the mission editor (also arguably the easiest thing ever to setup). But in Multiplayer more often than not, the Smoke doesn't start right away, in fact it usually starts randomly up to a minute or more at times. While this is not a major issue, it is strange, curious if you've seen this behavior before? 

This is a long-reported bug with DCS multiplayer: when a client connects, DCS does not synchronize colored smoke. The result is that connecting clients do not see any colored smoke that was started before they connect. In DML this is luckily self-correcting because DML "re-smokes" all smoke zones every 5 minutes. This results in the effect that smoke starts 'late'. It doesn't.  The server does not synch existing colored smoke, all connected clients synch colored smoke with the next iteration of re-smoke.

This issue is known to ED since at least 2018 more than 5 years ago, 

 I myself reported it almost exactly a year ago 

so far no reaction, no acknowledgement, no fix.

 

7 hours ago, bitboy said:

Worked fine in the ME, no joy for some reason in Multiplayer. ??

That is odd indeed. DML is entirely written to be agnostic to the number of clients, so it should not matter if you run a game single- or multi-player: what runs in single-player should run in multi-player. Now, DCS itself has some strange multiplayer quirks (see item above). Let's try and find out if there is something else that may be different (i.e. some logic blunder in DML) or if this is a "DCS thang". Do you have a simple mission that can re-produce the issue? Failing that, let's see if we can track down the culprit by turning on verbosity for heloTroops and the spawners, and if all fails, bring out the debugger.

7 hours ago, bitboy said:

is DML doing something else in the background that might affect this behavior at a FARP

No. DML can't tap into anything a FARP does (else I would have changed a lot a long time ago  ). Who owns the FARP? That might make a difference since you can't rearm/fuel if you don't own the FARP. Same goes for the issue above, by the way: who owns the FARP/spawners? 

[cfrag]

7 hours ago, Recluse said:

Can CLONE ZONES be nested?

Not in the classic sense, but you can often achieve similar effects. CloneZones support a 'masterOwner' attribute that can link the cloner's faction to an ownedZone. Owned Zones have outputs for who owns them (ownedBy# - use it to trigger an input that detects a change) and conquered! that you can use to trigger a cloneZone's production cycle. When a cloner is linked to a masterOwner, all clones that it produces are owned by the faction that ownes the master zone, so even if the template units are neutral, if the current owner is blue, the resulting clones are also blue. This helps a lot with templates that have routes. A hint: to not confuse DCS unduly: use neutral clone templates.

Alternatively, if you are using FARPs/airfields, the 'airfield' module is even easier to use than owned zones, with many of the same outputs, and a managed 'owner' attribute that cloners/spawners can masterOwn to.

Both also support outputs for red! and blue!, so you can use them to trigger different cloners/spawners whenever the FARP is conquered by either red or blue.

 

[bitboy]

cfrag,

 Thanks for the follow up. Yeah to be fair, the Smoke issue I've seen outside of DML as well. And the lack of response from ED....well I've seen that too. I've reported some map/scenery bugs in the past that have never had a response.

 I'll continue to investigate on this end, if you like I can send you the mission if you would like to examine?

I will say currently.....I'm leaning on the side of..."DCS Thang" for the Helo Troops spawn issue. I test more this week.

Thanks

[Recluse]

7 hours ago, cfrag said:

Not in the classic sense, but you can often achieve similar effects. CloneZones support a 'masterOwner' attribute that can link the cloner's faction to an ownedZone. Owned Zones have outputs for who owns them (ownedBy# - use it to trigger an input that detects a change) and conquered! that you can use to trigger a cloneZone's production cycle. When a cloner is linked to a masterOwner, all clones that it produces are owned by the faction that ownes the master zone, so even if the template units are neutral, if the current owner is blue, the resulting clones are also blue. This helps a lot with templates that have routes. A hint: to not confuse DCS unduly: use neutral clone templates.

Alternatively, if you are using FARPs/airfields, the 'airfield' module is even easier to use than owned zones, with many of the same outputs, and a managed 'owner' attribute that cloners/spawners can masterOwn to.

Both also support outputs for red! and blue!, so you can use them to trigger different cloners/spawners whenever the FARP is conquered by either red or blue.

 

Not exactly what I had in mind, but let me mess with it some more.

While testing another thing came up:  I created a CloneZone that contained a FARP as well as the support objects. I used this ClonerFARP as the SOURCE for a couple of other CloneZones  When the Cloners activated, I got all the support units but it did not clone the FARP object itself. The FARP object (and Helos) spawned at the location of the SOURCE zone, but not at the destination zones using the ClonerFARP as SOURCE. Are FARP objects a special case? IT seems like whenever I make a CloneZone with a FARP, it does not seem to be part of the Cloner, but it spawns at mission start (the other units do not as long as onStart is false).

LOL, I guess FARPS shouldn't spring from NOTHINGNESS, but hey...    I will do a deeper dive into FARPZONES to see if that is another option.  As long as I can live with the FARP being present, the CLONEZONE works great to populate the other units and helos.

 

Edited February 5, 2024 by Recluse

[cfrag]

36 minutes ago, Recluse said:

Are FARP objects a special case?

Yes- FARPS, aircraft carriers and airfields cannot be cloned, their number is fixed and if you spawn a FARP via script, it is not synchronized across clients:

 

-ch

[cfrag]

3 hours ago, bitboy said:

I'll continue to investigate on this end, if you like I can send you the mission if you would like to examine?

Sure, I'd love to. Please (if possible) tell me what to look for or how I can try and force the issue. 

Cheers,

-ch

[bitboy]

Thanks I sent you the mission via direct message.

Cheers

[Recluse]

4 hours ago, cfrag said:

Yes- FARPS, aircraft carriers and airfields cannot be cloned, their number is fixed and if you spawn a FARP via script, it is not synchronized across clients:

 

-ch

Thanks for this!  I did go back and study up on FarpZones, and, you are right. I can pretty much do what I want with them, and a nested Cloner to supply the AI Helos.

Now for my most recent discovery:

I tried to  use the various hidden attributes (hidden itself, and hideGrey, hideRed, hideBlue). I only tried hidden: true (or yes) and hideGrey (true or yes) and combinations of the two, but the FARP object (and the resource vehicles) were always visible on the F10 map. On mission start, the Cloner hasn't fired so the only object is the FARP. When the cloner fires, it essentially captures the FARP for BLUE.

Any ideas?

 

Mission Editor

 

In Mission at start

 

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, Recluse said:

I tried to  use the various hidden attributes (hidden itself, and hideGrey, hideRed, hideBlue). I only tried hidden: true (or yes) and hideGrey (true or yes) and combinations of the two, but the FARP object (and the resource vehicles) were always visible on the F10 map.

Yes. That function is singularly bad explained. When I write 'hidden' I only mean the FARP capture circle around the FARP that is not shown for the faction that is 'hidden'. All vehicles are shown, and the FARP itself too.

1 hour ago, Recluse said:

On mission start, the Cloner hasn't fired so the only object is the FARP. When the cloner fires, it essentially captures the FARP for BLUE.

Unfortunately, the mission may see it differently. If the template for the cloner is within the FARP's capture zone, and it contains red or blue vehicles, DCS will see the units - if only for a split second - and capture the FARP for that side. So be careful when setting up cloners within the FARP that have a non-neutral affiliation. A better strategy is to tell the cloner to derive ownership from the FARP zone, and create the template from neutral (combined joint neutral). That way, the FARP stays neutral at the beginning, and the troops spawn red and blue when the FARP is red or blue.

[Recluse]

8 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Yes. That function is singularly bad explained. When I write 'hidden' I only mean the FARP capture circle around the FARP that is not shown for the faction that is 'hidden'. All vehicles are shown, and the FARP itself too.

Unfortunately, the mission may see it differently. If the template for the cloner is within the FARP's capture zone, and it contains red or blue vehicles, DCS will see the units - if only for a split second - and capture the FARP for that side. So be careful when setting up cloners within the FARP that have a non-neutral affiliation. A better strategy is to tell the cloner to derive ownership from the FARP zone, and create the template from neutral (combined joint neutral). That way, the FARP stays neutral at the beginning, and the troops spawn red and blue when the FARP is red or blue.

Thanks for the clarification!!  I read that section over and over, and I think I was coming to the conclusion that it was just the capture circle since it talked about color, though, of course the T in the middle of the FARP has a coalition color as well.

Actually, the Cloner in the FARP works PERFECTLY!!  (I was surprised!) The FARP remains neutral or whatever it starts at. until the cloner fires.  I recall the issue I had previously in this regard which was solved by using another cloner as SOURCE, but in this case, it seemed to work as I wanted it.  Right now, I am only needing it to go from neutral to BLUE, but I will look into the strategy above to make it more versatile. In this case, actually, it is the CLONER firing a BLUE unit that actually captures the FARP vs, the CLONER getting ownership from the FARP.  Kind of backwards, I know..

Edited February 5, 2024 by Recluse

[vgilsoler]

Possible bug in radiomenu:

Using radio menu with 4 items, when you choose C! the message displayed is AckD instead of AckC.

If using 3 items the message AckC is displayed correctly when selected C!

[bitboy]

cfrag,

 Looking to see if you have more details or working examples of the global config zones, specifically commanderConfig and or groundTroopsConfig. I see them referenced in the main documentation and understand what they may be used for, just wondering if there is a quick reference (like other DML modules) so I can get details on various attributes used with these modules.

Thanks

[cfrag]

3 hours ago, vgilsoler said:

Using radio menu with 4 items, when you choose C! the message displayed is AckD instead of AckC.

Confirmed - thank you!

Fixed in the script below, will be part of the next release.

 

radioMenus.lua

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, bitboy said:

 Looking to see if you have more details or working examples of the global config zones,

All I have is what's in the manual. I'm hoping that the defaults for the config zones would be good enough for most, if you have any questions or additions, I'm sure we can hash something out here. Adding them to the Quick Ref would IMHO only make the QR bigger, but not better.

[bitboy]

Nope all good, was just double checking to see if there were "required" scenarios. So far I've only had need for global config zones that have been referenced in the documentation and examples. For instance, factoryConfig. 

Thxs

[DD_Friar]

@cfrag Sir, I have just been looking but think now I may have imagined it...did you not use to have a module that could remove the downed pilot icon from the F10 map?

I am running a server with repeating clones for enemy AI aircraft which get shot down so over a period of an evenings play we are seeing lots of the little symbols dotted over the map.

As I say I thought I recall a module to remove them but looking through 2.0 can not see anything obvious that does it?

Kind regards

DD_Friar

Edit: FORGET THAT I HAVE FOUND IT "PARASHOO" - Not quite as mad as I think I am....

Edited February 6, 2024 by DD_Friar

[cfrag]

59 minutes ago, DD_Friar said:

I HAVE FOUND IT "PARASHOO"

 

[Recluse]

I am using a unitZone to check for all units in a coalition to be gone from the zone.  The flag banged by exitZone!  triggers a message through messenger.

Now, the message shows up at the beginning of the mission, but also triggers when it should.  I AM PRETTY SURE that this is because the units being checked for are spawned from a Cloner at mission start, so, I think the slight delay at mission start BEFORE they are cloned when the zone is EMPTY is triggering the message.  To test this,  I set the messenger to mute and triggered the messageON?  flag using a ME trigger that waits 10 seconds after mission start, and all is working, but I am wondering if there is a more elegant way to do it.

 

It is ironic, because the last cloner issue I had was the ownership seeing the template objects at mission start BEFORE they were wiped, and now I am having the opposite issue where, even though the cloner is set to fire ON START, there is enough of a delay to trigger the exitZone! flag!!

 

--and another unrelated question:

I was experimenting with capturing zones and bases by airdropping units and paratroops from the Anubis C130 mod.  It required me to load MIST and some flavor of the Hercules_Cargo.lua (or CTLD).

Is this going to cause any bad interactions with DML modules?

LOL.. HINT HINT could we get a DML module for dropping stuff  out of Hercs (palletized Units and Paratroopers) and Broncos? (Paratroopers) as another means of capturing zones?

Already works fine with HeloTroops when embarking/disembarking on the ground. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2024 by Recluse

[cfrag]

8 hours ago, Recluse said:

I am wondering if there is a more elegant way to do it.

I'm quite sure there is, but I can't think of one right now

8 hours ago, Recluse said:

could we get a DML module for dropping stuff  out of Hercs (palletized Units and Paratroopers) and Broncos?

I'm waiting for the "real" (from Airplane Sim Co) Herc to make a showing and see if by that time DCS provides a paratrooper/airdrop API (it seems a bit strange that currently there isn't, especially given the fact that paradrops was kind of a thing in WWII, especially in the Normandy area). I'll go from there.

8 hours ago, Recluse said:

Is this going to cause any bad interactions with DML modules?

DML has no issues coexisting with other frameworks. There's one thing to keep in mind when it comes to persistence: it it wasn't spawned by DML, it won't be persisted by DML. But IMHO, that's an edge case. 

 

[bitboy]

cfrag,

Good morning, a quick question about Helo Troops. Is there any functionality built in to the module that would allow player to get an onboard inventory? (Or is that a feature that's in CSAR Manager)?

Just looking to see if a player can check to see who/how many troops are onboard via the F10 Comms menu.

Thanks

bitboy

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, bitboy said:

Is there any functionality built in to the module that would allow player to get an onboard inventory?

I don't think that I coded such a function, but the Communications menu for helo troops - while in air - should tell you how many troops are on board if your helo has picked up a group. I'll have to check this, though.