The F-35 Thread

[NineLine]

[PFunk1606688187]

 

Have they solved the bit where that melts the carrier deck yet?

[Greyl]

In the article Rangi posted (Open the full article), it says the USS Wasp (where these tests are taking place) has already been modified to accomodate the F-35B, including a new composite deck coating with additional heat protection.

[Namenlos Ein]

Is there any reason why the F-35 has the canopy bow that the F-16 and F-22 don't?

 

 

[zaelu]

I laughed at that F22 retirement video. F35 (sorry if offenses somebody, please acknowledge that nothing happens if you are offended :D) will follow it and every one knows it... probably Pak50 also.

 

F16/F18/A10 can do whatever F35 could do cheaper and better. There is no threat and no F35 will be send ever!!! Ever!!! in a threat zone. Not at that price at least :lol:.

 

Someone said above that you should never believe politicians and media. Yeah! Do that! When they say is good to spend your cash on F35... don't believe it! Look at A-10... Why other nations build Generation 15 of warplanes? Simply... politicians... just like in the case of F22.

 

 

And then comes drones... :D

 

This semi rant is because I am really sad that we might play F35 game (like I played a F22 15 years ago) instead of some cool Vietnam/Korea stuff. All because of some liars.

[NineLine]

F16/F18/A10 can do whatever F35...

 

And in that statement you are saying, without saying, the F-35 can replace 3 current aircraft, so maybe there is something to that as well right?

[zaelu]

Say you have 3 beautiful wifes... and someone tries to sell you another wife that would replace them... at a price bigger than all 3 and taking them away... while he is pumping p0rn on all TV channels you whatch and selling you viagra... what would you think and feel? :D

 

Sure your wifes get older... but that is just a change... a refinement... you want "a virgin" that wants every second something expensive to entertain her... "defects"? :P

 

A10C F16 block 1000 and F18Z can do anything... anything! ;)

[NineLine]

Worst... analogy... ever... lol

[mvsgas]

Say you have 3 beautiful wifes... and someone tries to sell you another wife that would replace them... at a price bigger than all 3 and taking them away... while he is pumping p0rn on all TV channels you whatch and selling you viagra... what would you think and feel? :D

 

Sure your wifes get older... but that is just a change... a refinement... you want "a virgin" that wants every second something expensive to entertain her... "defects"? :P

 

A10C F16 block 1000 and F18Z can do anything... anything! ;)

 

LOL, That's a double edge sword;

Three nagging wife's or one?

Three that know what they are doing or one you have to teach everything?

lol

Loose loose. Bad analogy

:smartass:.

[zaelu]

He he :D A10C was nagging when it was called "A"... F16 also... F18... same... even mighty F15C said OK for the... rear... sorry... retrofit called "E". Now they are "mature". And all happening in a world that does not need them to be overpowered anyway and in a wordl of Oculus Rift and USB connected 6 toys... sorry again... I meant drones.

 

Seriously... where the costs of F35 (or F22) fit in?

Edited August 20, 2013 by zaelu

[Rangi]

He he :D A10C was nagging when it was called "A"... F16 also... F18... same... even mighty F15C said OK for the... rear... sorry... retrofit called "E". Now they are "mature". And all happening in a world that does not need them to be overpowered anyway and in a wordl of Oculus Rift and USB connected 6 toys... sorry again... I meant drones.

 

Seriously... where the costs of F35 (or F22) fit in?

 

Don't forget that those airframes (f-16, f-18C, a-10, f-15 etc) are getting pretty old and if you wanted to keep them as your force for the next 20-30 years you would have to new build them which in today's dollars would probably be getting closer to the takeaway price of an f-35. Also the cost savings over the life of the f-35 program for the commonality across services and countries will be huge. Granted it doesn't look like the low cost alternative it was proposed to be, but it wont be much more (and probably less) than the cost of keeping all those different airframes going and be at least as if not more effective at doing its main job which is, deterrence.

[zaelu]

I don't believe that building new F16/18 can cost like building F35 from scratch. Especially when F35... aside from "marketing" blah blah was desing like F22... politically bullet proof (but at global scale) thus a resource hog.

 

Of course... people can believe whatever they want about this.

 

For me F35 is a political scheme... F16/18 A10 will be replaced only by drones not by a half a billion little piggy with 200 bullets, 2 small bombs, and 2 missiles and some invisibility advertising (probably when is not raining).

For my country... F35 could be very good... we will buy second hand F16 from countries that bough the ad for F35. Cool! Although I would prefer some Su30 and Ka52 instead but... You can't have everything :D .

[Cedaway]

.......

 

For me F35 is a political scheme... F16/18 A10 will be replaced only by drones not by a half a billion little piggy with 200 bullets, 2 small bombs, and 2 missiles and some invisibility advertising (probably when is not raining).

...

 

Mean that?

 

[GGTharos]

F-16 Block 60's seem to come to a price of about 90 million a piece. They're not as capable as an F-35.

 

F-15SE was planned to be around 100 million a piece.

 

F-35s are currently about 120 million, but will allegedly come down in price.

 

I'd say they're all pretty close, especially if you'd imagine you'd be paying more for this year's model car.

 

I don't believe that building new F16/18 can cost like building F35 from scratch.

Edited August 21, 2013 by GGTharos

[zaelu]

F-35s are currently about 120 million, but will allegedly come down in price.

 

On 21 August 2013 C-Span reported that Congressional Quarterly and the Government Accountability Office were indicating the "Total estimated program cost now $400B--nearly twice initial cost." The Current investment was documented as approximately fifty (50) billion dollars. The Projected $316 billion dollar cost in development and procurement spending was estimated through 2037 at an average of $12.6 billion dollars per year. These were confirmed by Steve O'Bryan, Vice President of Lockheed Martin on the same date.

 

From wiki which has source on it.

 

You believe what you like, as I said. But 120 million multiplied by what goes to 400 billion? And that's just development. I'm sure that when it's ready they'll ask for a bit more of money. Besides what they ask already each year. Do you think putting two chinese tablets in each F16 would cost that much?

 

Now they can play with the so called "price" because it's easy... haven't you seen people playing with money lately? They can say is 5 bucks after spending 400 billion already... it's fine for me.

 

And for what? 2 bombs and 2 missiles... :joystick:.

[GGTharos]

Same payload as an F-16 ... in places where an F-16 can't go.

 

And for what? 2 bombs and 2 missiles... :joystick:.

[zaelu]

What do you mean? Once you put on that plane external pylons it is a F16 with a big Ipad.

[GGTharos]

I mean if the F-16 tries to go where the stealth iPad goes, it'll take a Grumble suppository :)

 

What do you mean? Once you put on that plane external pylons it is a F16 with a big Ipad.

[zaelu]

Well, this what I think is... the reasonable thought. With pylons externally to match F16 payload F35 is as visible as F16. If this invisibility is really to be taken into account.

 

For 2 A/G weapons... you can send a drone.

[GGTharos]

Ah, ok. You're still sold on the idea that the F-16 will be carrying more than the F-35 on a typical mission.

 

The F-35 has the equivalent internal payload of an F-16 on a typical strike mission. That F-16 will also be carrying 2 AAMs and 2 bombs, but it won't be slipping past defenses and kicking down doors. The F-35 will be doing that.

 

Once the big threats are knocked down, the F-35's will put on extra pylons for those CAS missions.

 

Well, this what I think is... the reasonable thought. With pylons externally to match F16 payload F35 is as visible as F16. If this invisibility is really to be taken into account.

 

For 2 A/G weapons... you can send a drone.

Edited August 21, 2013 by GGTharos

[NineLine]

Yup, what GG said, the payload will be based on mission parameters right? So what is not to say a couple F-35s couldnt carry what they need internally to do the job... later on they could load it out with external stores once threats are decreased or what have you...

[outlawal2]

Yup, what GG said, the payload will be based on mission parameters right? So what is not to say a couple F-35s couldnt carry what they need internally to do the job... later on they could load it out with external stores once threats are decreased or what have you...

 

So basically, the F-35 can do all the same missions an F-16 can... AND it can do some mission types that the F-16 can't do... (STEALTH)

 

What are these politicians thinking?!?!?

LOL

 

The naysayers kill me they really do... Everybody has the answers and yet none of us have all the information.. and yet the information we DO have still points to a better aircraft with more possible uses and battlefield flexibility..

 

Haters gonna hate... :doh:

[zaelu]

That's reasonable I guess. But still expensive... :D

 

@outlawal2

 

I don't hate that plane. I just think it will follow F22 pretty rapid. My guess this is going to happen when a drone will shot down one.

Edited August 21, 2013 by zaelu

[NineLine]

Everything new is more expensive... that's why I am still using a GTX460, my defense budget is considerably lower than the US government :)

 

That's reasonable I guess. But still expensive... :D

[GGTharos]

No, the F-22 got shafted because of the F-35. There's nothing to shaft the F-35 with yet :)

 

As for F-35's getting shot down ... sure it'll happen, it's combat. So what? The point isn't whether they will get shot down (if they don't bonus), but how many do you have to trade in for air superiority etc.

 

That's reasonable I guess. But still expensive... :D

 

@outlawal2

 

I don't hate that plane. I just think it will follow F22 pretty rapid. My guess this is going to happen when a drone will shot down one.