Controls -> Modifiers -> Switches : to Use an On-Off Toggle Switch

[Captain Orso]

There are Controls -> Modifiers -> Modifiers (hens forth called CMM in this thread), which have default setting like LAlt, LCtrl, RAlt, etc.

There are Controls -> Modifiers -> Switches (hens forth called CMS in this thread), which have no default settings.

I desperately want to create a CMS using a mechanical On-Off toggle switch. However CMS's only understand On(mom)-Off pushbuttons - "mom" = momentary, ie asserted only while being pressed, exactly like <Shift>.

 

Is there any way to make CMS work with an On-Off toggle switch?

 

[Tanuki44]

On my controls, an ON/OFF switch is recognized as 2 buttons, I only found a solution using AutoHotKey by testing both buttons that send the same code defined in the CMS.

The disadvantage is the lack of synchronization, you have to position the switch correctly before starting a mission.

Depending on some controllers that send a pulse too short to be well detected by the software (also visible in the Windows controller) while DCS handles it without any problem.

[sobe]

RS Mapper?

[Captain Orso]

2 hours ago, Tanuki44 said:

On my controls, an ON/OFF switch is recognized as 2 buttons,

That would be the most unusual toggle switch on a controller I'd ever seen. There are On-On toggle switches, but why would anyone use them on a controller?

If in Windows under Game Controller Settings -> Properties, when you toggle the switch, and one indicator light goes on and one goes off, then your switch is On-On.

If toggling your switch up and down only makes one light go on and off, then it is a standard On-Off switch, just like all the others.

2 hours ago, Tanuki44 said:

 

I only found a solution using AutoHotKey by testing both buttons that send the same code defined in the CMS.

The disadvantage is the lack of synchronization, you have to position the switch correctly before starting a mission.

Depending on some controllers that send a pulse too short to be well detected by the software (also visible in the Windows controller) while DCS handles it without any problem.

??? Controllers don't send single pulses. They work like light switches or door bell buttons. As long as the circuit is closed, current flows; the light is on, or the door bell rings.

1 hour ago, sobe said:

RS Mapper?

Thanks for the suggestion. I've looked at RS Mapper once before. A second layer of programming the same controls over again, and doubling the work as setting up a configuration doubling the complexity really turned be off to it. 

I'm looking for something like setting up the a bind in default.lua to work with toggle switches. Only the bind is affected, and nothing else.

[Tanuki44]

My controllers all work with MMJOY2 and that's how the switches are set up and that gives a lot of possibilities...

[Captain Orso]

Cheat! LOL

So to prove me wrong, you built a controller 

JK

I can see how that would be easier to use in DCS, but are you still limited to 32 individual DirectX switch identities? Just curious.

[Tanuki44]

Indeed ,  I made a helico set : collective, cyclic, rudder 

and also a set based on the Spitfire and warbird compatible : rudder with brakes, stick, quadrant 

and this utility :

 

[Sokol1_br]

13 hours ago, Captain Orso said:

There are Controls -> Modifiers -> Modifiers (hens forth called CMM in this thread), which have default setting like LAlt, LCtrl, RAlt, etc.

There are Controls -> Modifiers -> Switches (hens forth called CMS in this thread), which have no default settings.

This "Switches" (in controls) have nothing to do with ON-OFF, ON-OFF-ON switches, they are just for set a permanent "modifier" or a mode selector.

Quote

On my controls, an ON/OFF switch is recognized as 2 buttons,

That would be the most unusual toggle switch on a controller I'd ever seen. There are On-On toggle switches, but why would anyone use them on a controller?

Use because Windows and games (with few exceptions) don't recognize the OFF state of toggle switches, move the switches from ON to OFF do nothing.

ON press a DX button, OFF don't press.

So a ON-ON switch is more practical, avoiding the need of use and external mapping software, e.g. RS mapper, Joystick Gremlin, or edit LUA files for add command (a key press)in OFF state of an ON-OFF toggle switch. But... games in general defeat their use, because they use single key press for commands, e.g. press L turn cockpit lights ON, press L again for turn OFF, not the case of DCS (with exceptions for some commands in some planes).

 

Quote

If in Windows under Game Controller Settings -> Properties, when you toggle the switch, and one indicator light goes on and one goes off, then your switch is On-On.

If toggling your switch up and down only makes one light go on and off, then it is a standard On-Off switch, just like all the others.

Yes, but other than make the light in Widows Games Controllers lit of go off, the "OFF" position of toggle switch don't send commands for the game. Think about this detail.

Quote

I've looked at RS Mapper once before. A second layer of programming the same controls over again, and doubling the work as setting up a configuration doubling the complexity really turned be off to it. 

So, for avoid this second layer programming your options are:

- Edit LUA files adding function for OFF state of switch - what is solution only for DCS (other games don't have this option) and need be done for each plane, ending more laborious than use a 3rd part mapping, eg. RS Mapper, Joystick Grenlim, and every DCS update erase this edit, need have backup for restore.

- Use an hardware solution, that is the ON-ON switch or (MON)-ON, (MON)-(MON), what require a USB controller compatible, both positions will press a DX button. 

 Or, with controllers like MMjoy2, FreeJoy the OFF position can be programmed in the firmware for press a DX button, like Tanukki44 say.

VirPil throttle OF-OFF switches can have the firmware programmed in that way, press a DX button in both positions.

[Captain Orso]

10 hours ago, Tanuki44 said:

Indeed ,  I made a helico set : collective, cyclic, rudder 

and also a set based on the Spitfire and warbird compatible : rudder with brakes, stick, quadrant 

and this utility :

 

So, you are printing all this stuff with a 3D printer? My first thought was, "NEED MOAR!" 

I want to build a couple of mostly universal controllers, which I can use for numerous aircraft.

To one I want to add in a break lever for my Spit-Quito , and radar antenna elevation control (someone builds the plastic part of the switch, you just need to add a hall sensor and wiring, and of course a controller to hook it up to).

I'd like some dials to use for lighting, because I hate trying to fumble around with the mouse at night (I'm not that kind of guy, and it's not that kind of mouse ), mom-off-mom switches for course and heading in the F/A-18, so many things I want want want 

Since you've built your own sticks, throttles, and collectives, are you using hall sensors?

What board are you using for the basis?

Any suggestions you might want to pass on?

[Captain Orso]

8 hours ago, Sokol1_br said:

This "Switches" (in controls) have nothing to do with ON-OFF, ON-OFF-ON switches, they are just for set a permanent "modifier" or a mode selector.

Yes, exactly. I want to use a switch as a mode selector, so that I can use use my HOTAS, for flying the Apache as the CPG, or for controlling the TEDAC.

8 hours ago, Sokol1_br said:

Use because Windows and games (with few exceptions) don't recognize the OFF state of toggle switches, move the switches from ON to OFF do nothing.

ON press a DX button, OFF don't press.

Windows absolutely DOES recognize the Off state of a switch. It's call the off or unasserted state. In the Gaming Devices -> properties section, switching a switch to the unasserted or off state causes the indicator light to be extinguished. That's not coincidence, that is an on-purpose, positive control.

8 hours ago, Sokol1_br said:

So a ON-ON switch is more practical, avoiding the need of use and external mapping software, e.g. RS mapper, Joystick Gremlin, or edit LUA files for add command (a key press)in OFF state of an ON-OFF toggle switch. But... games in general defeat their use, because they use single key press for commands, e.g. press L turn cockpit lights ON, press L again for turn OFF, not the case of DCS (with exceptions for some commands in some planes).

 

Yes, but other than make the light in Widows Games Controllers lit of go off, the "OFF" position of toggle switch don't send commands for the game. Think about this detail.

So, for avoid this second layer programming your options are:

- Edit LUA files adding function for OFF state of switch - what is solution only for DCS (other games don't have this option) and need be done for each plane, ending more laborious than use a 3rd part mapping, eg. RS Mapper, Joystick Grenlim, and every DCS update erase this edit, need have backup for restore.

- Use an hardware solution, that is the ON-ON switch or (MON)-ON, (MON)-(MON), what require a USB controller compatible, both positions will press a DX button. 

 Or, with controllers like MMjoy2, FreeJoy the OFF position can be programmed in the firmware for press a DX button, like Tanukki44 say.

VirPil throttle OF-OFF switches can have the firmware programmed in that way, press a DX button in both positions.

Here's an example of using the "off" setting of a switch, I wrote years ago for the P-51D:

{down = device_commands.Button_4, up = device_commands.Button_4, cockpit_device_id  = devices.CONTROL_SYSTEM, value_down = 0.2, value_up = 0.1, name = _('Landing Gear Down else UP'),    category = _('Systems')},

Both "value_down" (button pressed or switch at the asserted position) and the "value_up" (button released, or switch at the un-asserted position) are evaluated.

In the "up" state, "0.1" is transmitted to "device_commands.Button_4" causing the undercarriage lever to be moved to the raised position, and the landing gear to be raised.

In the "down" state, "0.2" is transmitted to "device_commands.Button_4" causing the undercarriage lever to be moved to the lowered position, and the landing gear to be lowered.

ED has started to add such configurations themselves in many cases, in many newer aircraft. But if you have specific wishes, you must generally DIY.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Captain Orso
fixes for clarity

[Tanuki44]

Yes, I modeled the controls under SolidWorks and printed all non-metallic parts.

I started with potentiometers, but they are sometimes defined to integrate and accuracy and stability decreases with wear,

I replaced them with Hall (SS495A) sensors.

I use Pro Micro board, Windows only supports 8 axes per board, I have a board for cyclic or stick with rudder and another for the collective or quadrant.