investigating George AI as CPG de-WAS and SAFE weapon with target selection destroyed

[JIGGAwest]

I believe i've found either a bug or a process issue with George AI and target selection affecting the WAS.

 

Specifically with hellfire selected with the George AI MENU. We would go through the process of finding target,

wait for spool up of hellfire missile, maneuver to fit constraints for firing, then fire.

New target selection, George de-WASed the weapon, then WASed again, wait for missile to spool up, maneuver for firing constraints, then fire.

I believe you should be able to rapidly fire multiple missiles after targets are destroyed and new targets are selected. 

 

When a player CPG is in the seat there isn't a process for WASing and de-WASing. You can rapidly fire multiple missiles without waiting

for the hellfires to spool up in between shots. 

 

Additionally there is another issue with the player as PILOT and George as CPG when the player PILOT WASes the gun. If George is commanded

to find a target, the player PILOT will lose WAS on the gun. regardless of the George AI menu selection for WAS.

 

So if you already WASed the gun as the PILOT, set your auto range, if you command George to look for targets, you will lose your gun WAS and

your auto range selection.

 

TRACK

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hH1on7QzXxHAUkAqmJKEmzGreX0IV_wc/view?usp=sharing

Edited May 6, 2022 by JIGGAwest

[BIGNEWY]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:11 AM, JIGGAwest said:

I believe i've found either a bug or a process issue with George AI and target selection affecting the WAS.

 

Specifically with hellfire selected with the George AI MENU. We would go through the process of finding target,

wait for spool up of hellfire missile, maneuver to fit constraints for firing, then fire.

New target selection, George de-WASed the weapon, then WASed again, wait for missile to spool up, maneuver for firing constraints, then fire.

I believe you should be able to rapidly fire multiple missiles after targets are destroyed and new targets are selected. 

 

When a player CPG is in the seat there isn't a process for WASing and de-WASing. You can rapidly fire multiple missiles without waiting

for the hellfires to spool up in between shots. 

Yes please always attach a track file and it would be better to have one issue per report as things get confusing quickly.
Regarding this one, are you using down long to search in the same area, it is slightly quicker. 

 

 

On 4/16/2022 at 2:11 AM, JIGGAwest said:

Additionally there is another issue with the player as PILOT and George as CPG when the player PILOT WASes the gun. If George is commanded

to find a target, the player PILOT will lose WAS on the gun. regardless of the George AI menu selection for WAS.

 

So if you already WASed the gun as the PILOT, set your auto range, if you command George to look for targets, you will lose your gun WAS and

your auto range selection.

Please include a track replay, but I will check thanks

[JIGGAwest]

On 4/19/2022 at 3:34 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Yes please always attach a track file and it would be better to have one issue per report as things get confusing quickly.
Regarding this one, are you using down long to search in the same area, it is slightly quicker. 

 

 

Please include a track replay, but I will check thanks

Track posted - 

 

Highlight of error:

- Select target with George AI, George is lasing

- Missile spools up, small dotted box, then missile ready, large box appears, then fire the missile - target destroyed, George stops lasing

- George AI menu long down, select new target, George lases target, MSL NOT RDY on TADS display, Missile is spooling up, small box displayed,

Missile then spools, Large box displays, Fire - target destroyed

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hH1on7QzXxHAUkAqmJKEmzGreX0IV_wc/view?usp=sharing

[BIGNEWY]

apologies I can not use the track replay as it contains unofficial mods which will not work on our dev version

[JIGGAwest]

16 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

apologies I can not use the track replay as it contains unofficial mods which will not work on our dev version

 

EDmissionNOMODS.trk

[RUBIX]

I have created a short concise track showing George placing the aircraft on safe after every successful hit.

I have 8 Hellfire Missiles and shoot the first 4 as most people would. Ask George to look for a target, select a target, wait for Missile Ready, Consent Fire. Find new target, select target, wait for Missile Ready, Consent Fire. <--- This takes forever.

Rinse and Repeat.

The second 4 Hellfire Missiles I shoot using my workaround. Tell George to safe weapons (Down Short). --> "I" arm the weapons, "I" select Gun, then tell George to find a target, wait for Missile Ready, Consent Fire. Find new target, select target, I do not have to wait because the George cannot safe the weapons, immediately Consent to Fire.

 

Proposed solution: Have George keep the weapons armed after first engagement until commanded to safe the weapons with already in use 'Down Short' command.

AH-64D George Safe Weapon.trk

[JIGGAwest]

2 hours ago, RUBIX said:

I have created a short concise track showing George placing the aircraft on safe after every successful hit.

I have 8 Hellfire Missiles and shoot the first 4 as most people would. Ask George to look for a target, select a target, wait for Missile Ready, Consent Fire. Find new target, select target, wait for Missile Ready, Consent Fire. <--- This takes forever.

Rinse and Repeat.

The second 4 Hellfire Missiles I shoot using my workaround. Tell George to safe weapons (Down Short). --> "I" arm the weapons, "I" select Gun, then tell George to find a target, wait for Missile Ready, Consent Fire. Find new target, select target, I do not have to wait because the George cannot safe the weapons, immediately Consent to Fire.

 

Proposed solution: Have George keep the weapons armed after first engagement until commanded to safe the weapons with already in use 'Down Short' command.

AH-64D George Safe Weapon.trk 272.04 kB · 0 downloads

You are seeing George SAFE the weapon system on GEORGE AI MENU short press DOWN?

Do you notice GEORGE is also setting SAFE with GEORGE AI MENU long press DOWN?

He shouldn't be doing that. 

That short press command should be only STOP LASING and TADS FORWARD, ACQ FXD(page 344 manual). 

 

I'm not clear on your methods to stop GEORGE from setting SAFE the weapons. Can you go over that again?

[JIGGAwest]

Yes, I can confirm GEORGE is setting the weapons to safe after a GEORGE AI MENU target selection is destroyed. 

George reports target destroyed, laser off, and the aircraft goes to safe. 

 

I was wondering why sometimes the weapons would be SAFE after I make a run on a target and try to PILOT WAS GUN, and it wouldn't fire.

 

[RUBIX]

As of the current build George will Safe the aircraft anytime he is not looking at a single target. This includes when you have a target list using the "Down Long Press."

My workaround is as follows:

- Confirm George is not looking at any target with "Down Short"

!!- Player Arms the aircraft (Aircraft must be on Safe prior to player arming, otherwise George still seems to have control of Arming) !!

!!- Player WAS Gun (Player must have a weapon system selected, otherwise George still seems to have control of Arming) !!

- Then Command George to search for a target

- Command George to fire on target

- After target is destroyed, Command George to search for an additional target
    (You will notice he is unable to Safe the aircraft, and thus the aircraft and the Hellfires remain armed)

- Command George to fire on new target......there will be no delay

Edited May 6, 2022 by RUBIX

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, I will take another look at this over the weekend. 

thanks

[JIGGAwest]

I'd like to add that I was able to workaround the issue by arming the weapons in the pilot seat before George did "arm" procedure. 

the issue doesn't seem to arise again.