Varjo Aero: Общее руководство для новых владельцев

[Supmua]

3 hours ago, Willdass said:

Anyone else having issues with FFR in OXRTK?

When I enable it (Quality/Wide/ eye tracking on/off) the left display is sharp but the right display has a huge drop off in quality with no AA... 

I run native OpenXR with Mbucchia's wrapper.

No issue with FFR in terms of eye discrepancy.

[Slick Twitchy]

9 hours ago, dburne said:

You do need of course the --force_OpenXR argument along with the @mbucchia provided wrapper. Thank goodness for his help in getting this solution to us! Does not seem ED has any desire to actually fix this for us so we can have true native Open XR support for our Varjo Aeros.

 

I have a shortcut without any extensions "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe"    (No FORCE OPENXR etc) and it seems to be working perfectly.  I have mbuccia's files dropped into the proper folders. Am I missing something? 

 

[motoadve]

Which would be the Intel best processor to run DCS?

13900K?

[RedX]

23 hours ago, Supmua said:

If you really want to fine tune your settings I recommend Steam OpenXR  mode because you can run fpsVR and see everything.  Having constant graph tracings of both CPU and GPU frametimes, as well as real time GPU/CPU usage per core, temp, RAM etc. right in the same pop-up window is very helpful.  When you have a drop frame you can see exactly what's going on with the CPU/GPU/memory/temp, etc.

Have you noticed that Varjo Base itself provides some stats and "live history graph" similar to fpsVR? 

It is found on desktop by clicking open the analyzer window (one of the icons on left side of main Varjo Base window) and then clicking the grey icon at the bottom left corner of the analyzer window. This brings up a row of new selections at the bottom of the window. One of them toggles the statistics display on/off at the right edge of the same window.

Not visible in the headset 3D view as far as I know. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by RedX

[Supmua]

45 minutes ago, RedX said:

Have you noticed that Varjo Base itself provides some stats and "live history graph" similar to fpsVR? 

It is found on desktop by clicking open the analyzer window (one of the icons on left side of main Varjo Base window) and then clicking the grey icon at the bottom left corner of the analyzer window. This brings up a row of new selections at the bottom of the window. One of them toggles the statistics display on/off at the right edge of the same window.

Not visible in the headset 3D view as far as I know. 

 

Yes but I don’t think thats accurate when you switch out to desktop from the headset because background app can show reduced performance uptake causing underestimation of numbers, and it’s inconvenient to take off the headset just to check.  In scenarios where you have 1 sec stuttering it’s tough to tell what’s causing it because by the time you take off the headset it was a done deal.

DCS also has pop up GPU FT graphs, and I use this sometimes to cross check the accuracy of numbers from other apps.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Supmua

[Supmua]

2 hours ago, Slick Twitchy said:

 

I have a shortcut without any extensions "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe"    (No FORCE OPENXR etc) and it seems to be working perfectly.  I have mbuccia's files dropped into the proper folders. Am I missing something? 

 

DCS MT outputs OpenXR as default API, no need to force anything if you want to use OpenXR.

1 hour ago, motoadve said:

Which would be the Intel best processor to run DCS?

13900K?

Probably 13900KS, especially with the new MT build.  Keep in mind that the 13th gen is dead end, newer chip will use diff socket which means you’ll have to get a new motherboard if you want to upgrade. It might be better to wait for the 14900K (coming in 2nd half of 2023).

Edited March 16, 2023 by Supmua

[Supmua]

How to squeeze out even more performance from your PC.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-vbs-harms-performance-rtx-4090

[RedX]

10 hours ago, Supmua said:

How to squeeze out even more performance from your PC.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-vbs-harms-performance-rtx-4090

Oh, I've missed this one. Sounds like it should be on my PC settings checklist. Thanks for pointing it out.

[RedX]

11 hours ago, Supmua said:

Yes but I don’t think thats accurate when you switch out to desktop from the headset because background app can show reduced performance uptake causing underestimation of numbers, and it’s inconvenient to take off the headset just to check.  In scenarios where you have 1 sec stuttering it’s tough to tell what’s causing it because by the time you take off the headset it was a done deal.

DCS also has pop up GPU FT graphs, and I use this sometimes to cross check the accuracy of numbers from other apps.

 

You are correct. When systematically testing whether a setting or change has impact on performance, I usually leave the headset on table or hold it in my hands so that anything on Windows desktop can be visible all the time. Usually I try to make many simple, direct comparisons and use them as a "bunch" to figure out what is best for me. 

[Supmua]

Found a command line that also works with OpenVR.  It's --force_varjo_VR.  This might be the same as default output in single thread DCS build, but it doesn't crash with mt DCS except that screen rendering is all messed up on the Aero.  I wonder if this would work with higher end models such as the VR3/XR3.  In st DCS, the graphics are crazy sharp with quad view rendering in this mode but with double mouse cursor issue.  My fps in F-16 Caucasus free flight in quad view OpenVR is in high 70s, normally 90 in stereo view mode, not bad if you lock at 45 fps.

Also, it seems DCS mt no longer outputs quadview as the mirror screen in single view only and there's no double mouse cursor with good performance.  The only catch is that OXRTK causes blank screen on VR headset, but the mirror screen works normally.  At present you have to disable OXRTK for this to work.  Soon we may no longer need the extension wrapper.  If you want to check this out, remove the Varjo folder from the C drive and uninstall and reinstall VB, then disable OXRTK before running DCS mt. (EDIT: checked with mbucchia, it seems the quad view is still active but just that the mouse cursor is now rendered correctly).

Edited March 17, 2023 by Supmua

[Supmua]

We may have some good news from mbucchia this weekend regarding DFR and quad view mode. 

[dburne]

Ok so probably a stupid question. After each DCS update will I still need to go in and do anything for the Open XR Wrapper to still work properly with DCS? I ask as I know the wrapper is put into the Varjo Base files rather than the DCS files?

[zildac]

Ok so probably a stupid question. After each DCS update will I still need to go in and do anything for the Open XR Wrapper to still work properly with DCS? I ask as I know the wrapper is put into the Varjo Base files rather than the DCS files?

Shouldn't have to, no. Only if you update VB for example.

[dburne]

Just now, zildac said:

1 minute ago, dburne said:

Ok so probably a stupid question. After each DCS update will I still need to go in and do anything for the Open XR Wrapper to still work properly with DCS? I ask as I know the wrapper is put into the Varjo Base files rather than the DCS files?

Shouldn't have to, no. Only if you update VB for example.

Ok great, that is kind of what I was thinking also. Ideally the next DCS update would have a fix for this but I am not very hopefull on that one.

[Supmua]

I'm seeing better performance today after both DCS and SteamVR update, inappropriate frametime spikes are minimized.  Redid the 1st mission from the Rising Squall campaign with 45 fps lock + motion smoothing + PD 1.1 and it was quite smooth (Steam OpenXR runtime).  This is my go to test mission as it's fairly short 20 min rather than 1.5 hours, and there're crazy amount of flying aircrafts and missiles everywhere not to mention busy carrier deck.  Also, if you haven't tried to increase PD I suggest giving it a shot, at 1.1-1.2 it increases the sharpness by quite a bit plus further reduction in shimmering.  At 1.3 everything was just pristine but my setup cannot handle the framerate with motion smoothing on at this setting.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Supmua

[dburne]

Currently very happy with using Open XR along with Open XR Toolkit with my Aero. And my performance practically skyrocketed after the MT update. Now if only ED could address and fix the native Open XR with the Aero. Currently requires the wrapper kindly provided by Mbucchia to get it to run properly. So it requires a Mod to get it to work with DCS properly.

[Supmua]

43 minutes ago, dburne said:

Currently very happy with using Open XR along with Open XR Toolkit with my Aero. And my performance practically skyrocketed after the MT update. Now if only ED could address and fix the native Open XR with the Aero. Currently requires the wrapper kindly provided by Mbucchia to get it to run properly. So it requires a Mod to get it to work with DCS properly.

The XR_VARJO_quad_views extension layer will need to be disabled either by ED or Varjo.  I'm not sure ED would bother with this, so it's better to have a toggle switch via Varjo VB app.  Steam doesn't support this extension hence it's not a problem if you run DCS via Steam.  If you want to run DCS without mods right now Steam OpenXR is the only way, plus you can still use OpenXR toolkit if that's what you want.

On the other hand, we may have proper dynamic foveated rendering option via quad view mode if mbucchia can get this to work.  The way Varjo does their DFR if I understand correctly is by rendering virtual quad screens on your visual field (pre-made DFR if you will), 2 of them act as central vision for each eye with sharper res, and the other 2 as peripheral vision with lower res.  This is different from conventional DFR where you just use 2 views, one per each eye and directly reduce the peripheral resolution.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Supmua

[motoadve]

Will Open XR toolkit increase performance?

I am pretty happy with how DCS looks in the Varjo Aero, not bother to modify the look, but if this can increase performance then I am in.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

The XR_VARJO_quad_views extension layer will need to be disabled either by ED or Varjo.  I'm not sure ED would bother with this, so it's better to have a toggle switch via Varjo VB app.  Steam doesn't support this extension hence it's not a problem if you run DCS via Steam.  If you want to run DCS without mods right now Steam OpenXR is the only way, plus you can still use OpenXR toolkit if that's what you want.

On the other hand, we may have proper dynamic foveated rendering option via quad view mode if mbucchia can get this to work.  The way Varjo does their DFR if I understand correctly is by rendering virtual quad screens on your visual field (pre-made DFR if you will), 2 of them act as central vision for each eye with sharper res, and the other 2 as peripheral vision with lower res.  This is different from conventional DFR where you just use 2 views, one per each eye and directly reduce the peripheral resolution.

 

 

But of course, ED says it is Varjo, Varjo says it is Ed. I just want the dang thing to work like it is supposed to so I reckon it probably never will at this point. I like running in Varjo's Open XR though now with the Open XR Toolkit so I will stick with using the wrapper as long as it works. AFAIK Aero does not support 4 views, only 2. Someone needs to fix this. Varjo VR3 supports 4 views, not Aero.

Edited March 18, 2023 by dburne

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

The XR_VARJO_quad_views extension layer will need to be disabled either by ED or Varjo.  I'm not sure ED would bother with this, so it's better to have a toggle switch via Varjo VB app.  Steam doesn't support this extension hence it's not a problem if you run DCS via Steam.  If you want to run DCS without mods right now Steam OpenXR is the only way, plus you can still use OpenXR toolkit if that's what you want.

 

 

Question for ya in regards to running Open XR using Steam VR along with the Open XR Toolkit, which is used to set resolution or are both effective at that? Just wondering. 

[Supmua]

Just now, dburne said:

 

Question for ya in regards to running Open XR using Steam VR along with the Open XR Toolkit, which is used to set resolution or are both effective at that? Just wondering. 

I've tried both, works fine either way.  You can also do it via PD setting from DCS and check the final resolution via OXRTK log file that way.  PD setting does a better job at shimmering reduction for upscaling, but it makes sense since this is done internally via DCS rather than external app.

16 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

But of course, ED says it is Varjo, Varjo says it is Ed. I just want the dang thing to work like it is supposed to so I reckon it probably never will at this point. I like running in Varjo's Open XR though now with the Open XR Toolkit so I will stick with using the wrapper as long as it works. AFAIK Aero does not support 4 views, only 2. Someone needs to fix this. Varjo VR3 supports 4 views, not Aero.

 

The Aero kind of does, as I said it does 4 virtual screens for DFR with different resolutions per pair.

[dburne]

1 minute ago, Supmua said:

I've tried both, works fine either way.  You can also do it via PD setting from DCS and check the final resolution via OXRTK log file that way.  PD setting does a better job at shimmering reduction for upscaling, but it makes sense since this is done internally via DCS rather than external app.

Ok thanks much, I may have a peek at it here soon.

[Supmua]

I still have to try the new F-18C Syria campaign.  Has anybody run it on the Aero?  I don't have 1.5-2 hours to spend on mission though.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Supmua

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I still have to try the new F-18C Syria campaign.  Has anybody run it on the Aero?  I don't have 1.5-2 hours to spend on mission though.

 

I am tempted and probably only thing giving me pause is it is not carrier based at least that I can tell. I do love me some good Super Carrier action. I am sure I will grab it though, long missions do not bother me so much and I love flying Hornet campaigns.

12 minutes ago, Supmua said:

 

The Aero kind of does, as I said it does 4 virtual screens for DFR with different resolutions per pair.

Lol I swear sometimes I think the information flow changes on a daily basis on some of this stuff. Previously (very recently) it was the Aero does not, the VR-3 does. It is no wonder VR will never come close to mass adoption.

[Supmua]

OpenXR runtime switcher.  Useful tool to quickly switch between various runtimes (Steam vs Varjo in our case).

https://github.com/WaGi-Coding/OpenXR-Runtime-Switcher