G-Warmup - how does it work?

[darkman222]

I am posting in the general forum although I am flying the F16 only. But I think the G-modelling is the same for every aircraft with a pilot with G-suit, so I wanted to keep the question more general.

How does G-warmup work? Is there any tutorial or documentation? When I spawn on a dogfight server there is only little time until the fight begins to do a warmup. What is the procedure to get the most out of the warmup in the smallest amount of time?

[MARLAN_]

A real G warm? Or an airquake G warm?

For the latter just pull G.

For the former

"Colt, reference 090, accel" (this typically follows your items checks during fence in, and is pre-briefed/SOP)

"Colt, 90 right, go" (typically you turn into dash last so you can check his RWR) pull 4G right and stop after 90 degrees. Flight holds this heading for some seconds, ~5-10

"Colt, resume" Briefly pull max G, not exceeding 6G, then ease off to 4G until back on initial heading

[darkman222]

Well of course there are real world procedures. But I am afraid the only thing that counts in DCS how DCS handles it. Like I said, on a dogfight server you often have less than 60 seconds until a fight begins. So I guess its not documented how to do a proper "DCS G warmup" then...

[Dragon1-1]

60 seconds before the fight you would already be G-warm IRL. This could be accommodated by an editor setting (also useful for quick missions to practice specific dogfight setups), but it's not currently supported.

[GGTharos]

4 hours ago, darkman222 said:

Well of course there are real world procedures. But I am afraid the only thing that counts in DCS how DCS handles it. Like I said, on a dogfight server you often have less than 60 seconds until a fight begins. So I guess its not documented how to do a proper "DCS G warmup" then...

Do your warm-up before you enter the expected combat zone.    Do a full 360 or if you prefer, 90 one direction then 90 in the other; you can do this at 4g or if you prefer, at 5g 5g.  No need to go nuts.

If you're at high altitude, don't bother - you'll get your opportunity to warm up as the fight descends, and you're not going to pull a whole lot of g for any significant amount of time up there.

 

To answer your question about how it works:  Unfortunately I don't have solid numbers for you except that you must perform the warm-up at a minimum of 4g.  The best I remember is this:

4g for ~20 sec.

Lasts for about 10min if you do nothing.

Edited June 10, 2022 by GGTharos

[darkman222]

10 hours ago, GGTharos said:

To answer your question about how it works:  Unfortunately I don't have solid numbers for you except that you must perform the warm-up at a minimum of 4g.  The best I remember is this:

4g for ~20 sec.

Lasts for about 10min if you do nothing.

Thanks, that helps for now. I'll try that next time I am on the dogfight server.

[Gideon312]

 

@15:40 they do a G-warm (MOVER is a former RL fast jet pilot)

First G-warm = 90 degrees 4-4,5G, second = 90 degrees 5-6G

 

On our server we do it slightly different:

Accelerate to 400 kts for G-warm

LD: ‘Wolf For G-Warm and Weapons check, call ready’. WING: ‘2s ready’.

LD: ‘Wolf In place 90 left/right GO’. - This allows one aircraft to roll out behind the other and check missile growl and RADAR lock.

Aircraft behind ‘1/2’s complete.’

LD: ‘Wolf For G-Warm, 180 left/right GO’ - both aircraft Maximum power and pull max g-through 180 degrees, you can use height below if required.

On roll out, the behind aircraft conducts weapons checks and then calls ‘1/2 complete – in-place 90 left/right back into battle.

(left/right is left or right at your discretion)

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Gideon312

[darkman222]

Thanks. And is it actually the most efficient way warming up the virtual pilot? I imagine what you guys are doing is a 20 second 4 G warm up : 90 degrees left, 180 right, 90 left sounds like about 20 seconds to me.

[Gideon312]

As far as I understand it’s not about the seconds but about the G’s. A 90 left or right in mil power and or afterburner is for sure less than 20 seconds.

 

Nice discussion about the topic:

 

 

[Jenson]

On 5/29/2022 at 6:36 PM, darkman222 said:

How does G-warmup work? Is there any tutorial or documentation? 

CNATRA P-1288 (Rev. 05-20) Chapter Three, section 305 read as follows: 

A G-Warm shall be executed prior to beginning any TACFORM maneuvering. A G-Warm
requires a minimum of 180 degrees of turn. Normally, the flight will conduct two 90-degree
turns in opposite directions such that the flight ends up on the original heading. The turn will be
executed to achieve 4 Gs for the first 90 degrees, and then a peak to 6 Gs, easing to 4 Gs, for the
second 90 degrees of turn. This allows for the flight to efficiently complete a G-Warm while
transiting to the working area. The G-Warm will be initiated with the wingman in DCS or as
close to it as local course rule altitudes allow. Reference the TACSOP for specific instructions
on how the G-Warm will be executed.
You will lose sight of Lead in a G-Warm if it is initiated into you, so don’t call “blind” when
Lead goes into trail. If the G-Warm is initiated away from you and you lose sight of Lead, call
“blind” immediately and execute all of the turns as directed! The trailing aircraft should strive
to be at the leading aircraft's dead 6 o'clock after the first turn.
It is essential that both aircraft strictly adhere to the airspeed and G requirements outlined in
the TACSOP, as there is a potential for a mid-air if the trail Fighter floats the second turn.

null

Common errors:
1. Pulling for greater or less than 90 degrees on the first turn, resulting in skewed geometry.
This is more readily apparent when Wing does not end up at Lead’s six o’clock during initial
G-Warms away from Wing.
2. Poor Lift Vector and/or nose placement during the first turn and getting too fast
(>400 KIAS) or too slow (<380 KIAS) prior to the second turn.
3. Not pulling right to 6 Gs in the second turn, or not maintaining at least 4 Gs thereafter.
4. Not getting the nose up quickly enough for the climb back to Spread, resulting in getting
fast and going acute.
5. Post G-Warm – not intercepting Lead's bearing line and 300 KIAS.

 

[GGTharos]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:41 AM, darkman222 said:

Thanks. And is it actually the most efficient way warming up the virtual pilot? I imagine what you guys are doing is a 20 second 4 G warm up : 90 degrees left, 180 right, 90 left sounds like about 20 seconds to me.

You can (and I suggest you should, there are online calculators) do the math for this yourself, or just make a few turns and write down the timing ... a 360 at 4 g will be enough, it will be more than 20 seconds if you perform it at 400KIAS (assuming you can, this depends on gross weight and altitude).

You can also do a couple of hook turns (180s) one at 4g, check your plane, radar, whatever else you want to check, then another at 5g to put you back on track.

[Maverick Su-35S]

On 7/5/2022 at 8:34 AM, Jenson said:

 

From all that you've put so much effort in presenting here, can you show us how close is DCS to this...?

Everyone can test what's actually "simulated"! If not "warmed" up, if you start pulling 9G (with the onset you get on the instantly deflecting flight controls simulated for DCS FC3 F-15C) and hold it there, the simulated pilot blacks out uncontrollably in only 6 seconds as if he would "not expect" to do  maneuver. If you "warm" up the simulated pilot, under the same conditions, he blacks out in 11..12 seconds, but if you go to 7.9..8G (no matter how fast or slow) and keep 7.9 to 8G, although the screen may initially become full black, the simulated pilot never actually blacks out, he's full in control and after a couple of seconds the screen comes lighting slower and slower up to a very good amount and you can circle at that G forever.

At 8G, not "warmed up" you fly forever and "warm through", but at 9G, "warmed up", you are 100% dead in 12 seconds because with the newest updates and "corrections", when the pilot faints, he gets a miracle power and starts pulling the stick better than ever, not slipping it out of his hand or at least release all the pressure on it as it would normally happen! Hasn't anyone tested that except me? A real trained pilot is suppose to never black out (that's too much already), but mostly get some gray out or green vision in no less than 15 seconds, indeed with a G-suit on, but on a vertical G testing chair (no reduction on the vertical distance between head and toes or on the unwanted effect). You can never get to that even in the F-16C in DCS which simulates the same G effect as all other fighter jets.

[Maverick Su-35S]

On 7/7/2022 at 6:42 PM, GGTharos said:

You can (and I suggest you should, there are online calculators) do the math for this yourself, or just make a few turns and write down the timing ... a 360 at 4 g will be enough, it will be more than 20 seconds if you perform it at 400KIAS (assuming you can, this depends on gross weight and altitude).

You can also do a couple of hook turns (180s) one at 4g, check your plane, radar, whatever else you want to check, then another at 5g to put you back on track.

I'd come with a better advise! Just pull 7.9Gs and keep it there no matter the short coming effects that will quickly go away and you'll find this the most effective way of both warming up and keeping a combat advantage by not needing to reduce that G.

Tweaks, corrections in numbers..., that's all DCS needs almost all around. Cause most of the effects generated in this sim are a must/need for better overall experience and simulation but inputting the correct numbers (not exaggerated to any side) is more important than adding the effect. Just saying...!