not planned Foundation Feature Data (FFD)

[Seapiglet]

P137 of the manual describes the FFD display option, which is marked as N/I.  Not clear whether this will ever be implemented, but if would make the digital map much more useful.  It wouldn't even need to show all of the features the real aircraft is capable of - even just water, roads, urban areas, forests and ideally political boundaries would be awesome.

I guess it might be quite a lot of work to construct this for each map, but actually I'd be delighted if we could have the F10 map on the TSD somehow, even if it isn't realistic.  Using the charts are fine, but if you zoom in much it disappears, and while you can set the map scale independently of the zoom scale it is immediately lost as soon as you change the zoom so is a faff.

[Kharrn]

just having 1:100.000 or even 1:50.000 map charts for each map would be an awsome step...

 

[Scaley]

Having a chart scale that you didn't have to re-select every time you zoomed would be a good start!

 

[FalcoGer]

On 6/1/2022 at 12:51 AM, Seapiglet said:

P137 of the manual describes the FFD display option, which is marked as N/I.  Not clear whether this will ever be implemented, but if would make the digital map much more useful.  It wouldn't even need to show all of the features the real aircraft is capable of - even just water, roads, urban areas, forests and ideally political boundaries would be awesome.

I guess it might be quite a lot of work to construct this for each map, but actually I'd be delighted if we could have the F10 map on the TSD somehow, even if it isn't realistic.  Using the charts are fine, but if you zoom in much it disappears, and while you can set the map scale independently of the zoom scale it is immediately lost as soon as you change the zoom so is a faff.

rivers would be nice, too.

I mean they already know where the roads are, otherwise vehicles wouldn't be able to path on them. Forests are colored in green on the F10 map, I imagine they used some sort of tool to generate those polygons that are different colored. They should be able to use the same tool to generate the maps. I mean it is a digital map, it's fine if it's generated from the same digital data that was used to generate the F10 map in the first place.

Edited July 12, 2022 by FalcoGer

[FalcoGer]

Is this planned or not? Personally I think it would really add a lot of usability to the digital map.

For those who don't know, the FFD is a database of lines and areas on the map which are colored on the digital map. Currently the digital map only shows the altitude of the terrain and quite literally nothing else. What the FFD allows is to color in relevant areas such as, but not limited to,

• Forests
• Cities
• Lakes
• Swamps/Marshland

and display lines for

• Rivers
• Roads
• Power lines
• Railroads

All in different colors. Along with other tools, such as vis shading, this would make the digital map a lot more useful, even more so than the current chart map.

[Floyd1212]

This does sound useful.  I typically use the SAT map as it shows the most detail, but I would switch to the DIG map if these features were displayed.

[corbu1]

Would like this as well. Same here, actually I use SAT map but would use DIG map more often with this feature.

[FalcoGer]

Is this planned?

I'm not sure how the F10 altitude maps are generated, but the same data the F10 altitude maps are generated from could be used to render FFD features directly or generate an overlay to turn on or off separately from the background map. It's a lot of data, so it's probably best to have a rasterized, per-rendered version for each map

[FalcoGer]

TL;DR

Implementing FFD or using the existing F10 alt map as an overlay on the AH-64D’s digital map would significantly enhance situational awareness with minimal development effort.

The problem

The current digital map lacks contextual information beyond elevation data, making it less useful than other map modes (e.g., SAT or chart). Charts lose detail at higher zoom levels or disappear altogether, and satellite maps disappear when zooming out. This limits their utility for route planning and situational awareness during missions.

This makes people ignore the digital map mode altogether, when in the real Apache it provides enhanced situational awareness through features like VIS shading, contour lines and most importantly the FFD.

The solution

1. Full FFD implementation
   Add FFD data to the AH-64D’s digital map, enhancing its situational awareness capabilities by correlating terrain features (roads, rivers, urban areas, etc.) with what you see outside or through the TADS. This matches real-world functionality and improves usability for route planning and battlefield analysis.
   This is the realistic approach.
   As shown below, much of the FFD data is already present in the terrain files used to generate the F10 map and could be reused to compile the overlays necessary for the DCS Apache implementation of FFD. The FFD data that is present in the real Apache, but not explicitly included in the terrain data could be ignored (defaulting back to moonscape), or considered the closes equivalent (Rock -> Ground, Industrial -> Urban) - with the option to include that data later/never in the terrain files.

2. F10 Alt Map Overlay as a Simplified Solution
   As a more immediate and less resource-intensive option, allow the F10 alt map to display on the MFD when FFD is activated, similar to the KA-50's ABRIS moving map. VIS shading could still be possible, as seen on the KA-50's ABRIS moving map.
   The overlay could serve as an interim solution or a permanent feature, ensuring pilots have access to better digital maps sooner.
   Simply add the existing terrain elevation and shading of the digital map as an alpha channel onto the flat colors of the F10 alt map.
   This would:

   1. Utilize existing terrain data (e.g., forests, roads, urban areas) with minimal development effort.

   2. Provide many of the benefits of FFD without requiring extensive new overlays or terrain file updates.

   3. Allow incremental implementation of FFD

3. Allow modded overlays
   The FFD data comes from the data cartridge in the real Apache. Implement the display of this data and provide the specifications for file paths and file formats and outsource the creation of these overlays to modders and users.
   Obviously the disadvantage is that this places your burden on your customers, who do not have the same resources (raw terrain file data and specifications for that data).
   Advantages of this approach:

   1. Minimal work for developers, only the display and reading files need to be implemented

   2. No need to compile terrain data into multiple map formats (F10 altitude, F10 satellite, Apache FFD)

   3. Outsource expensive hand crafting of map data to users

Comparative analysis between FFD and F10 Alt map

Much of the data that is present in the real Apache's FFD is already present in the terrain data files for DCS world, and used to generate the F10 map. This very same data can be used to generate the FFD overlays (area and line) for the Apache.

Reusing the same data has multiple benefits, the most important are

• Accuracy: the FFD data will match the terrain file, even if changes to the terrain files are made
• Lower workload: No need to draw the overlays by hand
• Reusable: Once implemented, the same procedure can be used for all maps, including new ones

Line data, all available from whatever data is used to generate the F10 map:

• Single Trees
• Road/Path/Bridge
• Political Boundary
• Runway
• Railroad
• Fence/Wall/Barrier
• Water

FFD line data not available in terrain data:

• Cliff (Possibly from elevation data?)
• Gully (DCS doesn't have this?)
• Pipeline (Possibly from object position?)
• Tower (Possibly from object position?)
• Ford (Shallow river crossing, not a thing in DCS?)

Area data, also available from map data used to generate F10 map:

• Forests (shown as dark green on F10)
• Sand/Beach (Shown as tan on F10)
• Ground (Shown as light green on F10)
• Urban (Shown as yellow on F10)
• Building (Shown as dark gray on F10)
• Water (shown as blue on F10)

Area data, not available from map data used to generate F10 map:

• Marsh/Swamp (maybe that is actually in? I seem to recall something like that on the west end of the Caucasus terrain)
• Rock (unsure?)
• Snow (just call it ground?)
• Industrial (just call it urban?)

 

Edited January 4 by FalcoGer

[Raptor9]

Multiple wishlist threads have been merged.

FFD was a feature that was hardly, if ever, used in the real AH-64D. As such, this feature is not planned and efforts are focused on other aspects and features of the DCS AH-64D.

[Dragon1-1]

It was present, though. As long as it's not actually classified, it should be eventually added, IMO. I'm fine with "low priority", but "not planned" implies the plan assumes leaving out some features of the real thing for no other reason than them being little used.

One thing I like about the A-10 is how complete that module is. It has a lot of pages which IRL are hardly touched in flight, but are nonetheless nice to have in the one situation in which you'd want to mess with them.

[Raptor9]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It was present, though. As long as it's not actually classified, it should be eventually added, IMO. I'm fine with "low priority", but "not planned" implies the plan assumes leaving out some features of the real thing for no other reason than them being little used.

Let me clarify. When I say it "was hardly, if ever, used", I am not saying that the real AH-64D pilots simply chose not to use it, I am saying that FFD wasn't even loaded into the real AH-64D map databases, and was not even available to use from within the cockpit, even if the aircrews wanted to. It was in fact not present as you are claiming.

I'm sure there was at least one unit out there that probably used it at least once, whether it was training or operational testing, which is why I avoided saying "never" because there are always the occasional exception to absolute statements. However, there are much more important features that are still in development for the DCS AH-64D that were actually available for use by aircrews at large.