CCIP delivery optimum attack profile ( and auto mode question)

[markturner1960]

Sorry for all the queries, having issues with this as well, whats the best profile for a dive bomb ccip attack? I am often finding I cant get the solid cross and the big thick line to move down until I am way too low and not in a good position. Is there an optimum dive angle and offset from the target to use? Any tricks and foibles of the Harrier system I need to know? 

I am pretty good in the Hornet, but this is proving tricky and all the guides I have read seem to not mention this specifically  - some mention a shallow dive, I tried this but only get the solid cross when I am really low........

 

And on the similar subject, sometimes, I find using auto, that as I near the target, nicely steady, the fall line moves, ( well, the FPM will move to the side, but its as if the line moves, I am flying true...))I need to correct and cant bring it back then it moves suddenly back again, but I am too near and cant correct.....what would cause that? 

 

Thanks

Edited July 5, 2022 by markturner1960

[Krez]

5000 feet AGL or higher.
30 degree dive angle.
Don't overspeed.

 

[markturner1960]

Thanks, What’s the best way to get the solid horizontal bar moving down to the cross? Is it best to try and put the cross on the target asap? As I am finding that if I just place it under and wait for it to come to the target, it often remains hatched until very near the target……

[Frederf]

Aim farther away. Aim off distance can be 3000' perhaps. These attacks are pre-calculated and practiced so they happen as planned in a repeatable way. If you put the target on the pipper or too near it initially you will fly the pipper off the target before it goes solid. If you try to track the target with the pipper continuously you will not fly a straight line dive. If you want the pipper to go valid and shortly after move through the target then it is important to pick a good aim off distance.

For a 30 degree attack with Mk 82 you might start at 7-8kft and put the target 50-75% down along the PBIL (line connecting to pipper). Try it once with 50% target initial placement, try to use the same speed, altitude, dive, throttle, everything as much the same each time. As soon as you put target along the line move your attention to the VV. See what terrain is under the VV and keep it there for a constant dive angle. Adjust bank to keep target on line and fly straight to terrain under VV. Watch pipper go live and then move through target. Make note of what altitude pipper was live and what altitude pipper was on target.

Normally pipper is alive 1-2 seconds before crossing target. If pipper was alive very early then release will be late/low. Try it again with same everything except try 60% or 70% or 80% target-along-line. If you pick too high a % placement then pipper will go live very soon before pipper crosses target or even after. With consistent parameters (+-20' entry, +-20 knots, +-2 degrees dive angle, +-10% throttle, etc.) you can find a good initial placement.

[markturner1960]

Perfect, thanks Frederf, just what I was looking for.....

[markturner1960]

I have a further related query and rather than start a new thread will post here:

So I have carefully tried to ensure that the bomb altitude parameters are using the ARBS...however, I cant get "Auto" & CCIP to appear in the HUD. ( I can get all the others IE: RCIP, GCIP & BCIP to appear....) In Chucks guide, he says select the "Bomb" ODU to use the radar, GPS for GPS etc.....his guide shows all 3 selected. is this required? ( I presume so if one is not getting a solution it falls back to the next best?) 

However, how do ensure ARBS is used, which is the first and best option I understand? 

[Ramsay]

The only TAC manual available via the internet is from 2003, so is missing many details (AFAIK Razbam are relying on SME feedback to model OFP H6.2.1).

With that said, this my current understanding

1.

Unfortunately I haven't worked through in detail the conditions and parameters require to enable the different modes in DCS i.e. Auto, CCIP, RCIP, GCIP, etc.

2.

8 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

In Chucks guide, he says select the "Bomb" ODU to use the radar, GPS for GPS etc.....his guide shows all 3 selected. is this required? ( I presume so if one is not getting a solution it falls back to the next best?) 

One of the elements of the "bombing triangle" used to calculate the impact point is the aircraft's height above the target.

The order of aircraft altitude source accuracy is RAlt, GPS and then Barometric.
• RAlt only works below 5,000 ft but may not be the "best" if the terrain below the aircraft is not at a similar altitude to the target
• GPS is subject to jamming or loss of satellite tracking and has an error margin of +/-10m IRL (1993 Test results?). AFAIK DCS treats GPS Alt as perfect.
• Baro is subject to pressure changes and requires a QNH estimate for the target area
(Note IRL the AV-8B uses the selected Waypoint/Target Point altitude as "target altitude", AFAIK DCS simplifies this).

Hence why you might want to select all 3

3.

8 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

how do ensure ARBS is used, which is the first and best option I understand? 

The ARBS uses DMT TV or LST tracking to measure target "Angle" and "Angle Rate" to calculate the slant range* i.e. the DMT needs to be locked on the target using the TV contrast lock or Laser Spot Track.

The TPOD uses similar "Angle Rate" tracking but has the advange it can "directly" measure slant range using it's laser - so should be as accurate as the DMT if not more so.

*Note calculating the slant range using "Angle Rate" requires also knowing your altitude above the target point.
The final bombing "solution" uses the INS (gyros and accelerometers) to measure the aircraft's ground speed and direction, so is "wind corrected" in so much as how wind effects the aircraft.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Ramsay

[lukeXIII]

In theory in order of preference:

1. CCIP/AUTO is used if a target has been locked in the DMT and there is sufficient angle rate
2. RCIP/RAUT is used if the above is invalid, "BOMB" has been colonised and radalt is less than 5000 feet
3. GCIP/GAUT is used if the above is invalid, "GPS"  has been colonised and GPS signal is available
4. BCIP/BAUT is used if the above is invalid

In game however there is functionally no difference between these modes so it doesn't matter what you have selected. The HUD will also show CCIP/AUTO whenever you have DMT selected, regardless of if you have a lock or not.

On 7/8/2022 at 12:49 AM, Ramsay said:

*Note calculating the slant range using "Angle Rate" requires also knowing your altitude above the target point.

That's not quite correct. Slant range is derived from true velocity, line of sight angle and angle rates. Height above target is then derived from slant range and line of sight angle

[markturner1960]

OK, thanks, so ignore what it says in the HUD, as long as you have a solution, it should be GTG......

Seems like a fairly major thing to be this long not corrected by Razbam? 

[Ramsay]

2 hours ago, markturner1960 said:

Seems like a fairly major thing to be this long not corrected by Razbam?

The original DCS system model (H4.2 ?) was basic but functional, the move to modelling OFP H6.2.1 allowed Razbam to improve the HUD behaviour but made it more nuanced.  It's likely getting new weapons (APKWS and GBU-54) and the Gen4 TPOD in took priority.

The nuanced behaviours/mode changes are wip and we are waiting for Razbam's updated manual to cover weapon systems/delivery to know which behaviours/limitations are intended and which are not modelled in DCS.

As usual with DCS, getting it right is an iterative process (three steps forward, one step back) and a question of priorities. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Ramsay

[markturner1960]

Cool, I did not realize the module was still being actively developed. Any rough idea on when the updated manual will be out?