AIM54 loft

[Mohamengina]

Is there anyway to not make the missile loft?

 

At closer ranges the missile will launch itself almost vertically into space and then come back down when it would be more efficient to have the missile head directly toward the target.

[WelshZeCorgi]

yeah, it also unnecessarily adds to the TTI when the fighters are so close. This is in TWS, I think the PDSTT (at certain ranges?) and PSTT and shooting it active off the rail with ACM cover up makes it not loft. 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by WelshZeCorgi

[scommander2]

There are lots of discussions at:

 

 

[Mohamengina]

Looks like this is a complex convo and is still ongoing.

Basically if the devs read this - then it would be awesome if the missile took the most efficient way to the target based on your distance to it.

Having a missile take longer to reach the target when it has enough energy to get there by not lofting just makes it more likely a bandit is going to kill me sooner and makes the F14 very fragile within medium ranges.

[DSplayer]

2 hours ago, Mohamengina said:

Looks like this is a complex convo and is still ongoing.

Basically if the devs read this - then it would be awesome if the missile took the most efficient way to the target based on your distance to it.

Having a missile take longer to reach the target when it has enough energy to get there by not lofting just makes it more likely a bandit is going to kill me sooner and makes the F14 very fragile within medium ranges.

What ranges are you specifically encountering this issue where lofting is detrimental? 

[Mohamengina]

20 milesish?

From memory it's the distance where bandits with medium range missiles get the advantage because their missiles don't loft as much so the time difference means you can't compete against them because you have to go defensive before the missile goes active.

 

[Prez]

8 hours ago, Mohamengina said:

20 milesish?

From memory it's the distance where bandits with medium range missiles get the advantage because their missiles don't loft as much so the time difference means you can't compete against them because you have to go defensive before the missile goes active.

 

The AIM-54 does not loft inside of 21NM to the target. The excessive loft profile comes from low altitude launches at long distances. If you get higher into altitude it wont loft so aggressively, and if you are actually inside of 21NM it shouldn't loft at all which I personally think is a detriment, but you shouldn't be using the AIM-54 at low altitude or close-medium range anyways

Should always keep in mind that the AIM-54 is best used at long range to stiff-arm and outrange your opponents. It'll never be as effective against fighters as an AIM-120 or any medium range missile because they were built with completely different mission sets and design philosophies.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Prez

[Exorcet]

8 hours ago, Mohamengina said:

20 milesish?

From memory it's the distance where bandits with medium range missiles get the advantage because their missiles don't loft as much so the time difference means you can't compete against them because you have to go defensive before the missile goes active.

 

Lofting can actually be beneficial even at relatively short ranges, especially for missiles like the AIM-54 which have long burn times but not the best TWR. The missile will reach higher speeds and slow down less if it begins to glide. The current AIM-54 isn't totally optimized yet, but it would surprise me if the best intercept almost always involves some sort of climb, even if short.

[Noctrach]

I've seen the "loft" also described as "main beam avoidance manoeuvre" but have been somewhat unable to figure out what the requirements for it are. I'm curious to what extent this would apply even at closer range.

[Mohamengina]

5 hours ago, Prez said:

The AIM-54 does not loft inside of 21NM to the target. The excessive loft profile comes from low altitude launches at long distances. If you get higher into altitude it wont loft so aggressively, and if you are actually inside of 21NM it shouldn't loft at all which I personally think is a detriment, but you shouldn't be using the AIM-54 at low altitude or close-medium range anyways

Should always keep in mind that the AIM-54 is best used at long range to stiff-arm and outrange your opponents. It'll never be as effective against fighters as an AIM-120 or any medium range missile because they were built with completely different mission sets and design philosophies.

 

Good to know thanks.

 

I was at a low altitude so I'll try flying higher next time or waiting to get within the 21 mile limit.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Mohamengina

[DSplayer]

Like what others have said, it doesn't loft within the 21nms or so against a co-altitude target. What I like to do when you're this close to an enemy and need to fire the 54 while also supporting it as little time as possible is to switch the target size to large in order for it to go active at a longer range from your target. Your target will get the warning earlier of course but this does mean that you will be able to defend farther away. 

Also btw, the AIM-120 when launched at 20nm against a co-altitude target does loft.

[Noctrach]

So far all the examples I've seen of missiles lofting detrimentally were missiles fired outside of kinetically achievable parameters, usually with manually assisted loft.

I do hope the 21 mile flat loft cut-off becomes a bit more nuanced in the future, as right now it hurts low altitude shots more than it helps. Then again, as others have said in this thread, Below 20-25,000 feet you want to refrain from taking shots with a TTI exceeding missile burn time anyway.