Orion 2 joystick base Heli Damper kit

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

I tried the dampers as supplied from Winwing but they had to be tightened so much to overcome the centering action of the rubber boot that there was just too much friction to allow for precise control. I then applied Nyogel 767 as shown and... night and day! I could back off the clamping force to almost nothing and the stick stayed where released but now had a smooth feel. I have ordered and will be trying a heavier damping grease, Nye PG44a as soon as it arrives. I highly recommend giving this a try for heli pilots.

[Dogmanbird]

I bought a tube of pg44 to use on a warthog stick and the gunfighter III clutches. It felt fantastic immediately after applying, but it's consistency slowly changes, possibly drying out a little? After 6 months to a year some sticking had returned. I guess if happy to clean and reapply when necessary, it's no problem

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

Update: 

PG-44A is too thick. Cleaned it off and went back to 767A.

[Dogmanbird]

did you find it gave a non-uniform feel through the range, or just over dampened and slow to center (or did not perfectly center at all) for your liking?

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

On 9/7/2022 at 2:10 AM, Dogmanbird said:

did you find it gave a non-uniform feel through the range, or just over dampened and slow to center (or did not perfectly center at all) for your liking?

Uniformly too stiff throughout the range. I have removed the cams / springs since I don't want centering. The stick stays where I leave it. Much better IMO than using the force trim switch.

[DishDoggie]

I have NOT used it but I would try something like Silicone Paste. Used some at work in the Maintenance Dept when I was working it always was good. We used Silicone Oil to it never left residue. Thinking outside of the Box here.

[MustangSally]

Time and time again, Nyogel has been proven as the goto lube for sim peripherals!

[Dogmanbird]

16 hours ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Uniformly too stiff throughout the range. I have removed the cams / springs since I don't want centering. The stick stays where I leave it. Much better IMO than using the force trim switch.

Thanks for the feedback. I much prefer that too.

I have 767 and 44a at my work for use in tripod heads that use multiple disks as drag (not true fluid heads). eventually I need to replace the grease. If the equipment on the tripod is light then it's okay, but heavy equipment starts to stick. It also may be changes in humidity and temperature that affects it over time. btw there is a different brand of 44a that is cheaper using and the same makeup(can't remember the name). both seems to last the same.

15 hours ago, DishDoggie said:

I have NOT used it but I would try something like Silicone Paste. Used some at work in the Maintenance Dept when I was working it always was good. We used Silicone Oil to it never left residue. Thinking outside of the Box here.

It would be interesting to try it , especially if it's a lot cheaper than 44 and 767.

it's those ultra tiny movements that they allow which feels awesome when first applied. However 44 will almost rip the stick off the base if needing to move it quickly, though imo it feels the nicest of the two for very precise movements..  I haven't yet found a grease type solution that suits both rapidly swinging the stick to it's extremes for some space games and helicopters in sims. The disk sandwich you've seen in the video is the best I've found so far, though I doubt it would appeal to most folk

Edited September 21, 2022 by Dogmanbird

[YSIAD_RIP]

On 9/6/2022 at 2:57 PM, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Update: 

PG-44A is too thick. Cleaned it off and went back to 767A.

I am seriously considering a purchase of the Orion 2 Flight Stick with the extension and the spring/damper kit. 

Looking for what other mods can be done to the flight stick to improve it.  So far the Nyogel 767A is a no-brainer.

@II.JG1_Vonrdhave you consider mixing a small batch of 2 parts 786A to 1 part PG-44A?

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

22 hours ago, YSIAD_RIP said:

have you consider mixing a small batch of 2 parts 786A to 1 part PG-44A

@YSIAD_RIP. No, since the 786A is working perfectly. If someone else tries it, I'd love to hear their opinion. The PG-44 is much more viscous... it might have to be more like 75% 786A to 25% PG-44.

[YSIAD_RIP]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:26 PM, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

@YSIAD_RIP. No, since the 786A is working perfectly. If someone else tries it, I'd love to hear their opinion. The PG-44 is much more viscous... it might have to be more like 75% 786A to 25% PG-44.

I just received my Orion 2 Stick with Extension and Spring Kit.  I will be lucky if I get a chance to test, play and experiment before the end of the month. Hoping for a few rainy days and really bad weather to give me an excuse.. lol..   Can't wait to try out the new stick. 

[PawlaczGMD]

On 8/25/2022 at 3:43 PM, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

I tried the dampers as supplied from Winwing but they had to be tightened so much to overcome the centering action of the rubber boot that there was just too much friction to allow for precise control. I then applied Nyogel 767 as shown and... night and day! I could back off the clamping force to almost nothing and the stick stayed where released but now had a smooth feel. I have ordered and will be trying a heavier damping grease, Nye PG44a as soon as it arrives. I highly recommend giving this a try for heli pilots.

I'm struggling to adjust the Orion 2 with dampers and no springs. I have the dampers lubed with 767A, but they still need to be quite tight to prevent the rubber boot from moving the stick. This creates some friction. 

 

Also, the stick movement feels unnatural in the diagonal. This might be because the friction on the two axes is not identical. But I still have trouble dialing it in.

I wonder if I should try PG44a instead, also wondering why we feel differently...

Edited November 28, 2023 by PawlaczGMD

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

39 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

they still need to be quite tight to prevent the rubber boot from moving the stick

Yes, this was a main issue for me. I removed the boot and replaced it with some stretchy spandex like fabric. I use the lightest spring from the kit with the NC-1S cams (I also have the 10cm extension. If not using an extension, you may not need the cams / springs).

I found this to work perfectly. The PG44A was too stiff and I went back to 767A. See this post: 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by II.JG1_Vonrd

[PawlaczGMD]

2 hours ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

Yes, this was a main issue for me. I removed the boot and replaced it with some stretchy spandex like fabric. I use the lightest spring from the kit with the NC-1S cams (I also have the 10cm extension. If not using an extension, you may not need the cams / springs).

I found this to work perfectly. The PG44A was too stiff and I went back to 767A. See this post: 

 

 

OK, so you used the light springs, interesting. And without the boot, the springs were not strong enough to center your stick?

Perhaps the extension made the stick balance better. I don't want to modify the boot, or buy an extension. I might try the heavier grease, and lighter damper tension, maybe it will feel nicer to me.

 

BTW, did you buy the original extension, or do you know if cheaper ones exist that work with WW?

Edited November 28, 2023 by PawlaczGMD

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

57 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

I might try the heavier grease, and lighter damper tension

I do hope that it will work for you... maybe without the extension it will but the boot does add considerable centering force. It wasn't all that difficult to remove. I just used two screwdrivers to work it past the stock attachment fitting. It stretches quite a bit.

1 hour ago, PawlaczGMD said:

And without the boot, the springs were not strong enough to center your stick?

Without the springs the stick would fall off to the side or forward / back due to the weight of the stick (the extension exaggerated this). I didn't want the stick to center... that's the point. I want it to stay exactly where it is if I take my hand off. I could make it work with more tension on the clamps but it was way too stiff for my liking. As I have it now, I can fly with fingertip pressure and the stick stays in the position I leave it. 

1 hour ago, PawlaczGMD said:

BTW, did you buy the original extension, or do you know if cheaper ones exist that work with WW?

I bought the Winwing extension and consider it money well spent both for Helis as well as fixed wings.

BTW, I can switch from Heli to fixed wing (I loosen the clamps to zero and install the heavier springs and the default cams) in less than three minutes using a cordless screwdriver with the appropriate hex bits.

[MustangSally]

2 minutes ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

I do hope that it will work for you... maybe without the extension it will but the boot does add considerable centering force. It wasn't all that difficult to remove. I just used two screwdrivers to work it past the stock attachment fitting. It stretches quite a bit.

Without the springs the stick would fall off to the side or forward / back due to the weight of the stick (the extension exaggerated this). I didn't want the stick to center... that's the point. I want it to stay exactly where it is if I take my hand off. I could make it work with more tension on the clamps but it was way too stiff for my liking. As I have it now, I can fly with fingertip pressure and the stick stays in the position I leave it. 

I bought the Winwing extension and consider it money well spent both for Helis as well as fixed wings.

BTW, I can switch from Heli to fixed wing (I loosen the clamps to zero and install the heavier springs and the default cams) in less than three minutes using a cordless screwdriver with the appropriate hex bits.

I use 2 complete sticks. One for heli's (Clutches only) and the other with springs and clutches (jets). I just swap them out using the top 4 bolts on the base.

[II.JG1_Vonrd]

34 minutes ago, MustangSally said:

I use 2 complete sticks. One for heli's (Clutches only) and the other with springs and clutches (jets). I just swap them out using the top 4 bolts on the base.

That's the ideal way  

The Boss would banish me to the couch due to excessive expenditure though  

[PawlaczGMD]

1 hour ago, II.JG1_Vonrd said:

I do hope that it will work for you... maybe without the extension it will but the boot does add considerable centering force. It wasn't all that difficult to remove. I just used two screwdrivers to work it past the stock attachment fitting. It stretches quite a bit.

Without the springs the stick would fall off to the side or forward / back due to the weight of the stick (the extension exaggerated this). I didn't want the stick to center... that's the point. I want it to stay exactly where it is if I take my hand off. I could make it work with more tension on the clamps but it was way too stiff for my liking. As I have it now, I can fly with fingertip pressure and the stick stays in the position I leave it. 

I bought the Winwing extension and consider it money well spent both for Helis as well as fixed wings.

BTW, I can switch from Heli to fixed wing (I loosen the clamps to zero and install the heavier springs and the default cams) in less than three minutes using a cordless screwdriver with the appropriate hex bits.

OK, I looked at it again, and my problem was that I didn't apply nearly enough Nyogel. I put it on thick and it is so much better now. I think I still might try the thicker one, but it feels quite good.

I don't want to remove the boot, because I like it. And I don't want to have to do so much work to change the setup.

I will think about buying the extension if the open a USA store. Having to pay $20 for shipping for every little thing is just too much.

Thanks for the tips anyway.

[PawlaczGMD]

Update: I have bought PG44a and found it works much better for me. it holds the stick with considerably less friction required on the clutch, resulting with less sticktion. When using springs, it actually damps rebound almost completely with 0 pressure on the clutches. 767A did almost nothing with no pressure applied, and resulted in loss of centering when enough pressure was applied. I recommend trying it out if you don't want to remove the rubber boot.